Working on rotational draw(Second video added)

[GreyCrow]

Hey Trad Gang,

My father in law passed down to me his recurve 10 months ago and I've been hooked something fierce!
This forum has been an incredible wealth of knowledge that Ive mostly lurked on and not posted too much but I need some help!

Im working on getting into my back muscles and having some difficulty. Im the only person amongst my family and friends that shoot trad, so mostly Ive looked to youtube (MoeBow, JimmyBlackmon) for tutelage.

When I practice drawing without a bow in my hands I can sense the feeling of my right shoulder blade pop put and engage, but the moment I put a bow in my hands the strain I feel is in the back of my arm (tricep?) about half way up from my elbow and arcing over into my shoulder slightly. I do not feel my shoulder blade engage.

I have reached a plateau in my accuracy and I feel this is to blame.

Im shooting a grayling era Bear Black bear, 60 inch, 45@28. My DL is approx. 29.5

Here is a video of four shots: 2 facing, 1 behind, and 1 infront.

Thanks in advance.  

  form vid

 FORM SECOND VIDEO

[moebow]

GreyCrow,

Good start but...  Coaches always have a "but..."

First, Don't "swing your string hand around like that.  See the outward then inward movement of the hand?  The hand moves in a straight line into your anchor, it doesn't "swing around."  Think of bringing your entire string forearm and string hand STRAIGHT (ABOUT a 45* angle in to your face) to a point about 1" below your anchor.  Then you lift STRAIGHT UP to your references.

Next, you are pulling clear back to your ear.  Then you let it go forward to your anchor references.  Just draw to your anchor location then move the hand straight UP to your face references -- NEVER forward!!

Hold your head still, don't cuddle up to the string or hand.  Pull directly to your STATIONARY head. The string and string hand comes to you. You do not "go to get it!"

I like your bow grip, stick with it.   You are closer than this may make it sound.  Keep with it and post another video in a few days.

Arne

[BobCo 1965]

Good advice Arne.

It is easier to overextend and overdraw to get or feel the rotation, but try to avoid it. If you have to come forward, you are collapsing the back tension that you have built up (Then you are trying to regain it.).

If it is possible maybe practice on a lightweight bow or thera band.  

Your string side wrist position looks good and consistent. Very nice.

[GreyCrow]

Thanks for the input guys. The swinging of my forearm was something I never noticed in watching video of myself. I noticed a more comfortable draw today when I tried keeping my forearm from swinging.
I will work on these suggestions this week and post a video once I have em nailed down.

Thanks again

[GreyCrow]

Ive been working on the suggestions alot.
I found with my new draw I lowered my anchor slighty too, and voila- Ive been feeling my back come into it.
I cant pull it together on every shot but when I can I keep a fist sized group.
I feel that I am still slightly overdrawing.

  FORM 2

[moebow]

Yes, that is looking better.  As you point out though, you are overdrawing and then letting your hand come forward to your anchor.

Try to draw to a point about 1" low and lift STRAIGHT UP to your anchor.  It is just a LIFT of the hand and forearm -- NOT forward.

Arne

[mahantango]

I'm curious Arne, why draw 1" low and then move up to your anchor rather than drawing straight to your anchor?

[Diamond Paul]

Only thing on the vid I see is that, first, you might take just a bit longer to settle at anchor and solidify everything.  Some people shoot fast, there's nothing wrong with it if it works for you, but it helped me to pause a bit and then focus on continuing back tension, rather than just being static.  Second, I say this because your hand does start to move forward just a fraction before the shot goes off.  I found that after incorporating the things Arne shows in his vids, my draw got a bit shorter, as I was apparently overdrawing and sinking, rather than anchoring and continuing to use my back through the shot.  These are just observations, for what they are worth.  Good luck.  Paul.

[moebow]

Paul,

Nothing wrong with drawing straight to anchor but drawing past anchor then coming forward disconnects your back tension and leads (often) to a collapsing shot.

I recommend drawing to slightly below then lifting as that helps with setting the back of the scapula in a better position and loads the trapezius and rhomboids better.  Once that is set, then a short and straight up lift establishes your facial references with LESS chance of loosing the back.

Arne

[GreyCrow]

Thanks everyone. What an awesome community of people willing to take time out of their day to help a stranger!

[Bill Turner]

Great info which can be of benefit to most on this site.    

[mahantango]

Thanks, good explaination as usual.