Ron and Terry: I'll stop giving the term a negative connotation.  What you call snapshooting and what I call applying the proper mechanics in a hurry are one and the same, we just have different terms for it.  Sorry if I was being a #@$@!@@#$@# about it!  LOL!

...lol...whipper-snappers?...

Pure dee o'l 'panic shooter' sound good to me.    

Thanks, Ron and Terry.

I wuzgonna weigh in, but you summed it up for the original question, and to guide each of us in our quest for the shooting style that best suits.

Snap Shooting - It has "always" been used to refer to someone that shot in one fluid motion, and whose release was triggered when they touched their anchor.

That works best for me as my focus is hunting, and I get my best accuracy and consistency that way. If I can do it, anybody should be able, as I'm not particularly talented.

Yesterday's 18 yd snap shooting group. As you can see, my "line" was off, as the group is 3-4 inches to the left of wing-center - my focus point.



The shooting vid.



I'm not the best example, but this shows what a slow-learner clutz can get to.

For those who want to learn it, look at Terry's posts and John Schultz's "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill. That's what I've done, and worked from their examples.

Wayne, your form looks good, smooth and consistent.  

If you continue to group to the left you might want to try a little weaker spine. Shooting left for a right hand shooter indicates a stiff arrow.  

Thanks, Ron.

I recently signed up to go to Bob Welsey's shooting school in September.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ron LaClair:
....

One thing I do know for sure is there is no absolute style when it comes to shooting a bow.

When someone says you have to shoot this way or that way because all the top shots shoot that way, I say baloney.

...

As for the term "Snap shooter", I've been hearing it for 50 years and it was probably used before that. It has "always" been used to refer to someone that shot in one fluid motion, and whose release was triggered when they touched their anchor.

....

Someone that "does not" come to full draw or touch their anchor before they release have what's called "target panic or what use to be called "IT". They are NOT...repeat NOT, snap shooters.

I think the problem is like what Terry said people today are "mis using" the term "snap shooter".  Snap shooting is definitely not an inferior style of shooting a bow, however it must be realized that not everyone can master the snap shooting style. Those that can't may end up with target panic and be called snap shooters but in reality they are  not. Maybe we should come up with another term to describe these failed snap shooters...."short snappers"?..."Half snappers"?

Dang Ron, I've been waiting for someone with your credentials to say that since I started back to trad. Thank you sir.

Groundhunter:

Years ago I sold my last compound and used the money to pay for a weekend of coaching from Bob Wesley. It was the best archery decision I ever made. Hope you enjoy it.

TM

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QuoteOriginally posted by JC:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Ron LaClair:
....

One thing I do know for sure is there is no absolute style when it comes to shooting a bow.

When someone says you have to shoot this way or that way because all the top shots shoot that way, I say baloney.

...

As for the term "Snap shooter", I've been hearing it for 50 years and it was probably used before that. It has "always" been used to refer to someone that shot in one fluid motion, and whose release was triggered when they touched their anchor.

....

Someone that "does not" come to full draw or touch their anchor before they release have what's called "target panic or what use to be called "IT". They are NOT...repeat NOT, snap shooters.

I think the problem is like what Terry said people today are "mis using" the term "snap shooter".  Snap shooting is definitely not an inferior style of shooting a bow, however it must be realized that not everyone can master the snap shooting style. Those that can't may end up with target panic and be called snap shooters but in reality they are  not. Maybe we should come up with another term to describe these failed snap shooters...."short snappers"?..."Half snappers"?

Dang Ron, I've been waiting for someone with your credentials to say that since I started back to trad. Thank you sir. [/b]

No doubt...  

Just as Ron said...there is no one specific style that an archer has to adhere to accomplish a specific goal.

What every archer should do is choose a style that is best suited for their goals, personality and ability...and the only way you will find that out is by trying different things or doing some research to better guide your decisions.

Snap Shooting isn't for everyone...just as Instinctive Aiming isn't for everyone.

If your goal was to hit pheasants out of the air...I surely wouldn't suggest String or Face Walking...but ultimately it's up to you to find what works.

It's just a privilage and benefit for everyone to have access to sites like these where you can pick the brains of those that have gone before you...to help make your choices a little easier and a little more directed.

Ray  

TTT  

I have followed this discussion closely because I have tried both styles (anchor/release and anchor/hold/release) and worked to determine which was going to produce more consistent accuracy for me.

Bottom line is that I struggled with my accuracy for 3 years trying to establish a style similar to what I see on Terry's video. My conclusion is that I was much better able to establish control, form and accuracy with a longer hold time. (1-3 secs on average)

Now I'm only an average archer for sure, and I don't know anything about target archery and I haven't killed much (with my recurve), but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that for the AVERAGE traditional archer a longer hold at anchor (all else being equal - good alignment, good release etc.) will produce better results.

FWIW

Before finding this site a few months or so ago, I had never encountered dialogue about shooting forms and whatnot. Its quite interesting.

I began my long love-life with barebow 30 years ago. I started off over-bowed and shot 70-75 lbs for years. If I had to label my style Id have to call it snap-shhoting. I shoot in one fluid motion and doubt I could have held at anchor to save my life.

What I dont understand is why people seem to have the need to put labels on everthing. Seems that when they do, the labeling is all too often followed by a judgement. Why do we need so badly to be right and tell others they are wrong?

When someone is challenged in some way and asks for advice, shouldnt we just give him our own experience, allow others to do the same even as theirs may be different from our own, and then allow that person to take what he can use and leave the rest?

Judgementalism is something that brings about seperation and division amoung sportsmen. There just arent enough of us to allow that to happen.

Anyway, for me... snap shooting is da bomb!! If I attempt to hold at anchor at all, as some of my friends do, it just leaves room for movement or waivering of the bow arm, decreasing consistency. It just makes sense to me that if I allow my 'instinct'(conditioned form, unconscious mind) to do the work of putting me on target, the most natural way to shoot is a smooth, fluid draw (either swing or straight-arm) and release upon touching anchor.

An interesting thing happened back in the 90's. A couple friends started giving me a hard time because they noticed that I wasnt reachng anchor, and that I would actually stick my lips out to meet my middle finger. I said, "ya mean like this?" at which time I flipped them my middle finger and kissed it!!

And guess what? I didnt do a thing about it. Why would I? I guess I got lazy over time shooting a heavy bow, but i was still consistently hitting what I wanted to hit at will. I just gave them a hard time back claiming to understand why they would be so interested in my form, being that I whooped their butts so often!! (Actually, they are both incredible shots and pride is a great motivator! Nothing like some great competition among friends to drive us to become the best we can be)

Anyway, my only advice is to not get caught up in all the "shoulds" and "do's and dont's". Give yourself a break and have fun. The more arrows you fling, the closer you will get to the day it just all clicks. Over-analyzing and over-thinking the shot, IMHO, just limits the brains ability to do it's thing, behind the scene where we cant mess it up.

I found it Madre....here ya go...

1967, I was 16 shooting a Ben Pearson recurve.  I was standing along Highway 75 shooting about 22 or 24 yards at a propped up Sear catalog with Hilbre broad head arrows. A man stopped and said "You are snap shooting, that's not good." Then he told me about how of much an expert he was.  I had 4 of my 6 arrows stuck in the catalog.  He went into great detail about the right way to shoot. I said, "show me." Handing him my bow and cant pinch tab.  He told me in detail to watch how he did it.  He drew and held while two flocks of geese and four clouds past by and then released.  He shot way left and plowed the arrow through my mom's flower patch. His excuse was that no one ever shoots a deer that far.  The next day shooting a propped up Montgomery Wards catalog, I thumped it and the thing shifted.  The next arrow skidded off off the catalog, went high in the air. Old Lady Van Morrow was just going into her house across the block. Relieved, I saw that the arrow was not going to stick on her roof.  instead it hit the cross bar of her clothesline and stuck in her aluminum door, just as she was closing it. She opened and closed the door three times before she saw the arrow and then almost had a heart attack.  i explained what had happened, she was so relieved that I was not trying to kill her, that she forgave me for being careless and would not let me pay for the door.  For the next 20 some years that door reminded me what can happen. All because I was a snap shooter? No, I did hit the catalog, but I moved my shooting to the town's clay pile when I wanted to shoot broad heads.

Moved to the top per request from member who wanted to show Ron LaClair's post to someone.

It is a great post BTW

Moved to the top per request from member who wanted to show Ron LaClair's post to someone.

It is a great post BTW

Quote from: Ron LaClair on April 15, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
I've been shooting a bow since I was a squirt... but I didn't really start to learn about form and style until I started shooting competition 49 years ago. While we never "stop" learning there are some things that become apparent after 50 years of study. One thing I do know for sure is there is no absolute style when it comes to shooting a bow.

When someone says you have to shoot this way or that way because all the top shots shoot that way, I say baloney. Some of the best shooters I've been privileged to know shot with what some would call an "unorthodox" style. Jim Pickering used a "Dead" release and high anchor when he competed in some of the top tournaments of the day in the 1960's. Everyone else in the Country shot with what was call "Power Archery" Jim whipped them all. He was a National Champion and a PAA Champion using a style that everyone said was "wrong". Jim Caspers another Archery Champion shot with a high elbow on his drawing arm. He actually pumped his arm up and down after he was at full draw, he said it helped him build up back tension.

As for the term "Snap shooter", I've been hearing it for 50 years and it was probably used before that. It has "always" been used to refer to someone that shot in one fluid motion, and whose release was triggered when they touched their anchor.

I was privileged to talk to Fred Bear many times over the years and I remember him calling himself a "snap shooter". He said, "I'm a snap shooter,..I concentrate from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet". He said he couldn't shoot a compound because the let off interfered with the rhythm of his shooting style and broke his concentration.

"Good snap shooters"?...I've seen a lot of them. In the early years of the GLLI (Great Lakes Longbow Invitational) when scores were kept , we had the best shooters in the Country shooting for the honor of top dog. The shooters that won that shoot more often than not were what I call "Snap shooters" Very controlled, very meticulous, very accurate shooters whose release was triggered when they touched their anchor.

Someone that "does not" come to full draw or touch their anchor before they release have what's called "target panic or what use to be called "IT". They are NOT...repeat NOT, snap shooters.

I think the problem is like what Terry said people today are "mis using" the term "snap shooter".  Snap shooting is definitely not an inferior style of shooting a bow, however it must be realized that not everyone can master the snap shooting style. Those that can't may end up with target panic and be called snap shooters but in reality they are  not. Maybe we should come up with another term to describe these failed snap shooters...."short snappers"?..."Half snappers"?

Quote from: Haldir on April 11, 2008, 05:34:00 PM
There's one thing that I have come to realize with regard to this topic...a person that holds at anchor can *usually* speed up their shot, if need be, with little ill effect... however, the opposite cannot be said of the "snapshooter" ...*usually*...       

False. All the guys I usually hunt with that are snap shooters are all in control of their shot.

"False. All the guys I usually hunt with that are snap shooters are all in control of their shot."

Same answer from me as well. I find it odd that people that hold tell people that don't what they can't do.  Same with aiming, gap shooters claim they know what instinctive shooters see and don't see, and how instinctive shooting is inferior when they can't they themselves can't shoot instinctive. It as comical as a NASCAR driver telling a Formula 1 Driver how to drive.