3 fingers under modification

flyflinger · October 23, 2015, 03:23:00 PM

Question for fellow 3 under shooters: I have shot 3 under for several years. I have always struggled with a clean release. Today I was shooting with a tab as usual and I positioned my fingers on the string as usual but then I consciously took ALL the pressure off my index finger. This of course put all the string on the long and ring fingers. Immediately and repeatedly my groups shrunk significantly.
Has anyone else shot this way?? Am I just a freak?
Any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

McDave · October 23, 2015, 04:05:00 PM

You're switching from 3 under to 2 under, in essence. Some people use the index and middle fingers, others use the middle and ring fingers. Quite a few people have reported they shoot better shooting 2 under. From other posts, I understand that Dan Toelke of Toelke Bows shoots 2 under using his middle and ring fingers. He scoots those fingers up until they are touching the nock, and either points down the shaft or touches the shaft with his index finger, I believe.

I haven't heard any reason not to shoot 2 under, if you want to. I would imagine there is more force on two fingers than there would be if you used three fingers, which could lead to finger stress, I suppose, which might be exaggerated with higher poundage bows.

flyflinger · October 23, 2015, 05:43:00 PM

Yes there is certainly more pressure on those 2 fingers!
I wasnt sliding the two fingers up to the nock. I left a void where the index was. I use a string nock above and below the nocking point.
Im thinking this void is what is giving me a better release. Or perhaps it was me plucking the string with the index?
Gonna try bringing the 2 fingers up to the nock point and see what happens.
Thanks for the input McDave.

jackdaw · October 24, 2015, 12:59:00 PM

It may also quiet your bow down by not overloading the bottom limb as it does in normal 3 under configuration..???

flyflinger · October 24, 2015, 04:03:00 PM

My bow is tillered for 3 under so I really haven't noticed any change in sound.
Been shooting today and my groups are much better than they have ever been. Beats me but I'll take it!!

jackdaw · October 25, 2015, 07:20:00 AM

I am a three under shooter as well. Now you have me intrigued! Going to try this myself..

olddogrib · October 25, 2015, 03:21:00 PM

Lots of 2U shooters and would probably have more fans if folks finger joints could stand it..no downsides other than that I know of. Most use index and middle. The ring finger can be problematic if it bears too much weight with a 3U release...2U may negate that.

Longtoke · October 26, 2015, 06:03:00 PM

why is too much weight on the ring finger bad for 3 under? just wondering because I shoot 3 under and most of the load is on my middle and ring finger.

McDave · October 26, 2015, 06:41:00 PM

I think you'll just have to experiment and see if you're more accurate with more weight on your index finger, more weight on your ring finger, or weight more evenly distributed among the three fingers. Accuracy is the most important thing, of course, but aside from that:

-The bow will be quieter as the point of pull is shifted toward the nock

-The nock point will be lower as the point of pull is shifted toward the nock.

I was just looking at a fairly new glove I've been using, and the hide is being worn off on the pad of my middle finger, and hardly any wear on either of the other two fingers. That doesn't surprise me, because I also have a callus on the pad of my middle finger, even though I always wear a glove. Now whether that's good, bad, or indifferent, I can't tell you.

flyflinger · October 27, 2015, 06:35:00 AM

Well after a few days of experimenting with this new grip on the string I've settled on a couple things. 1- by keeping my index off the string I am consistantly getiing a better release and my groups are the best they have ever been. 2- I beleive this is because when I use the index finger I am torquing the bow string and this is messing up my shot.
I have also had to go back to a cordovan tipped glove because while using a calf hair tab the extra pressure on my ring finger was causing pain and numbness!

Tradcat · October 28, 2015, 08:45:00 AM

Here's my take on this. I definitely shoot better two under and have tried both index & middle and middle & ring. I definitely get a cleaner release and at the same time, in effect, made the bow a little more "quiet" in the process. I shoot more consistent groups shooting middle and ring BUT everything hits left of my target. I shoot spot on index & middle. I basically come to full draw with three fingers under and then remove all pressure from my ring finger before releasing the arrow. I'm curious what others have experienced shooting this way.
Tradcat

slowbowjoe · October 31, 2015, 01:56:00 PM

I pretty much shoot two under; middle (most pressure) and ring fingers, index finger rests on the arrow.

I've played around with it before, and went mostly with 3 fingers. Injured my index finger last spring and could,t stand any pressure on it, so started shooting two under. Finger is all healed up, but for some reason my index finger just doesn't like to stay on the string anymore, so two under it is. I don't find the pressure excessive or uncomfortable at all at my usual 45#'s.

I do find my shooting is better. Might also have to do with better developing form, but I'm staying with the two under for now.
And yes, as McDave mentioned, it is Dan Toelke's recommended style.

flyflinger · October 31, 2015, 02:27:00 PM

Glad to hear Im not the only oddball around! lol
I tried index and long finger yesterday and not as tight on my groups as when I keep the index finger straight and off the string. I guess for now I will keep shooting this way because it makes a big difference in my groupings.

slowbowjoe · December 15, 2015, 04:02:00 AM

I should add I shoot three fingers split, just no pressure on the index finger after starting the draw.

highlow · December 27, 2015, 09:00:00 AM

Interesting topic. To me, what it boils down to is this-the fewer pressure points (fingers) on the string, the less chance for a poor release. And better accuracy. Think about the compound shooters. Only one point of pressure on their string. Imagine if it were possible to have three release aids on their sting and then have those three released at exactly the same time. Probably not going to happen. Now think about three fingers on the string. Releasing all three at exactly the same time with the same pressure. Most of the time not going to happen. One finger would be ideal but I doubt there are many of us who could pull a hunting weight bow with only one finger. In conclusion, the fewer things (fingers) to release at the shot, the better. Hence, two is better than three. I think. Do I make sense? I'm not the sharpest broadhead in the quiver.

Brett Leinmiller · December 28, 2015, 06:26:00 PM

Makes sense to me highlow. This thread really has me thinking. When I shot compounds, I pulled split finger then dropped the index finger off completely. 1 of the only 2 other compound/finger release shooters around here does the same thing. Since taking up taraditional archery 3 years ago, I've shot 3 under to have the arrow closer to my eye. I'm going to experiment this off-season with split and 2 finger.

In reference to those concerned about the arrow staying on the string with 3 under, I don't see that as a problem with trad bows. While 52", for instance, is relatively short for trad, it's 1/2 foot over the ideal compound fingers size. I shot a compound over 20 years that was roughly 40". Literally thousands of arrows through that bow and never one dry fire. I sure wish I'd discovered trad back then. Since buying my first Holzrichter custom bow, the compounds have collected dust.

Msturm · December 31, 2015, 05:53:00 PM

What you describe is exactly how my release works. I draw with all three under, index touching the arrow nock. At anchor I lift my index a bit off of the sting and touch the tip of my nose... It works well enough for me and it has a very natural feel to it. It also provides a second point of contact so I know I am anchored right... It might be weird but it works for me.

Yours,

Sturm

the rifleman · December 11, 2016, 03:31:00 PM

I just read this thread. Had given up on 3 under because I could not get decent left to right groups w most arrows hitting several inches to the right at 15 yds ( I'm a lefty). So I went out to the barn and tried 2 under w index and middle fingers, making sure I anchored below my cheekbone. Pretty much cleaned up my lefts and rights making me think w 3under I was either torking the string, messing up release, or not getting good arrow under the eye anchor. Thanks for the idea. I'm going to try this out for awhile.

hart2hart · December 11, 2016, 07:27:00 PM

The only way I can shoot the school's Genesis bows.
Short bow !!!
Wish I could shoot the heavier bows the same way but too much pressure on 2 old fingers.
Mike

olddogrib · December 12, 2016, 02:10:00 PM

FF,
The other thing you may be noticing is that in leaving the void where the index finger was you are probably essentially shooting a "fixed crawl" and it's shrinking your gaps whether you're aware of it or not. 3U shooters come down the string up to an inch to allow them to shoot "point on" the spot at normal hunting/3D ranges of 20-25 yds. It's quite effective for most folks. I just have a slight natural cant and when I played around with it it messed with my shaft/eye alignment if I continued to anchor at the same place.