Post by: Jim Casto Jr on December 31, 2018, 03:27:46 PM
After much trial and error, I've come up with a regimen of drills that DID IT for me, a close friend and several volunteers who also suffered from this demon for years. We finally have SUCCESS. Some report a complete cure while others report the confidence to maintain control over the demon.
Now... I'm not a good shot, not a psychologist, not an archery coach or anything of the sort. I'm just a desperate archer who's tried everything. Nothing worked—until now. I honestly think if you're willing to put in the work and spend 63 days (maybe more) following the drills I've put together, you'll have success too. If you're as frustrated and as desperate as I was, in the words of President Trump, "What in the hell do you have to lose?"
So far, EVERYONE that has followed the drills "TO-THE-LETTER" has been successful.
If you're interested, just PM me your email address and I'll forward you the drills and a spreadsheet to keep track of your progress in a PDF document. I'd appreciate communication along the way with updates of your progress too.
Please note: To keep from being derailed, this thread is not intended to be a discussion of what target panic is, or what your thoughts about it are. It's simply to offer a set of drills that have been tested and found to be successful. If you want to give it a go, just let me know.
Post by: McDave on December 31, 2018, 03:36:48 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on December 31, 2018, 07:13:34 PM
Please be advised: You must be willing to spend 20 to 30 minutes a day for 63 days (maybe more) on a very strict discipline, and you MUST follow the drills TO-THE-LETTER. If you aren't prepared to "pay the price" of admission, there's really no need to start-seriously. It'll also void your warranty. ;)
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 01, 2019, 11:18:46 AM
"Cecil has been keeping me posted all along with his progress. I was very eagar to hear how everyone did on day 22 (the first day to shoot arrows). I was thrilled to learn cecil shot his day 22 arrows in complete control. I was thrilled for him.... and me. lol lol"
Quote"So, closing in on my drill to actually shoot an arrow, I shot day 19's regimen on the Field course today. My bud was shooting close range cause he is still chasing deer, it is a lot more enjoyable to me to walk the wooded course and do the drills than in the garage.
I am so comfortable with my shot sequence this week, trying to really pay attention to some of the finer points of the expansion movement. Thinking about direction of elbow movement and engaging scapula. There is so much to be said about this process and how it has brought me back on track to just that, the process, and not the outcome of any shot. When all you do is try to perform the steps in your shot sequence as perfectly as possible then that indeed becomes the focus...which is the purpose after all. lol
Seems very logical. Absolutely no urges anymore even as I practice the expansion and imagine setting off the clicker. Very confident is how I feel. Also curious how, or if , adding the loose is going to change things. I'm guessing not much. So..about a third of the way through and feeling good."
Quote"This is my day 30. I had a late start cause we got married.. and yadda, yadda, yadda.....anyway this is working great. I think the real reinforcement is drawing 9 times and shooting once, it teaches you to let down for sure. I even had a couple instances where on the 10th arrow it didn't feel right. And I was able to say... NO. And just let down. And then shoot the 11th. Working well man. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for a great system"
Quote"For the first time in over 10 years I can anchor, aim and shoot in control. Sometimes I still get antsy but I can let down and start over. When I feel insecure I just move closer and do a few let down drills..."
Quote"I've been following your formula to the tee EXCEPT I stayed with my same weight bow(44lbs). Today I ran down to Lancaster archery and bought 30 lb limbs for my Satori. Today was day 43 and I shot from 5-30 with the lighter limbs with complete control. Shoulda bought them to start. I'll finish these last 20 days with them. Thanks for your help"
Quote"Jim, day 18 is under my belt and doing great to this point. I have utterly no urge to release. I have settled into a comfortable 31" draw. I am following the program to a "T"."
Quote"Day 23 and all is well. I am enjoying drawing and shooting without that hellish urge to SHOOT IT!! :o)"
"Jim, I just completed day 50. I'm in complete control and it feels sooooo good. Thanks so much..."
Quote"Up-date. I just finished the day 27 exercises and boy am I pleased. Now shooting at 15 yards with utterly no urge to blow up. LOL Jim emphasizes "immersing" yourself in aiming. That needs to be emphasized because one of the big issues with TP is the urge to release the moment you get even close to the target. To retrain your brain not to have that "idea" it is crucial to do the shot sequence steps and then FOCUS, FOCUS, Focus on the spot you intend to shoot...when you are ready. Thus far I am extremely pleased with the results. It requires discipline to follow the regimen as laid out. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It is so pleasant to shoot an arrow at 15 yards now in control. "
Quote"Today is day 61 I have 3 days to make up. my shots are controlled shots now. I plan to keep right on with the 4 let downs and shoot one arrow."
Quote"Performed day 32 drills earlier today, really amazing how this works. I was at the range and had some folks show up, had to explain why I was letting down so much. ha ha They were familiar with TP though and also amazed at how these brain exercises are working.
Of course they wanted to see how the actual shots went too and I was glad to have the pressure myself, the real deal. Executed the shots just like executing the "let downs" , great stuff...."
Quote"Jim, day 54 is under my belt. I had a hiccup the other day. My very first draw at 5 yds I let loose. I have no idea why except my mind was somewhere else. I got right back on track though and am doing well. I've been mixing my excersizes up between 30 lb and 39 lb bows.... There is no doubt in my mind that this is working and I can feel confidence growing and doubt lessening."
Quote"Day 31 checked off this afternoon--half way through nearly. I got to shoot at 20 yards! No yips, jerks, no little demon in my head screaming SHOOT. This is so cool and I am actually having fun doing it--look forward to my daily sessions. Feeling calm and in control feels so good, AAAAH."
Quote"Just finished day 8. Anxiety is way down as can be expected at this point. Having been relegated to snap shooting I've never been able to concentrate on a point of aim for more than a flash but now doing it 30 times a day before let down. Tomorrow I need to go out to 20yd so need to be at the club range at sunrise to make it to work on time. Guess you can say I've committed to make this happen. Thanks for the opportunity, Jim."
Quote"Merry Christmas Jim. I'm in Michigan for Christmas and took my bow. I just have 2 days left and this is a great Christmas present to be shooting in control..."
Quote"Day 38 done today and still amazed at the results I am experiencing. This is the best approach to treating the dreaded archer's affliction I have seen."
Quote"I've had target panic for over 50 years in all forms imaginable shooting compounds with releases and fingers and also with my traditional bows. I took Joel Turners online course and though that helped me a LOT, I still had tp.
So when Jim graciously made his off for 12 volunteers to try what helped him, I signed up. I committed and gave up my archery season to try and once for all get this demon off me. So it began and I followed it to the Tee except I started it using my hunting bow and not going with a real light bow. I did eventually get new 30 pound limbs and kept going following Jim's program as he spelled out.
His program WORKS. I am now shooting controlled shots.
I believe I will always have to fight it at times, but have learned how to combat it and only shoot controlled shots.
I want to thank Jim publicaly on here for his encouragement through out this program through emails and phone conversation. I love shooting and shooting in control is so much better...."
Post by: David Mitchell on January 03, 2019, 05:48:08 PM
Please note that you really need to start with a bow that you can "dominate" in Jim's word. Too much bow weight will be detrimental at the start. You can tell your wife that you "need" that new bow or set of limbs for your detox program. Tell her Dr. Dave said you must. :biglaugh:
If I were starting a new archer out who was new to traditional bows, I would insist that he/she work through this program first. If they do, I doubt seriously that they will ever struggle with target panic.
Post by: McDave on January 03, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 03, 2019, 07:23:29 PM
Beginning on day 2, you draw and let down 5 times and each yard to 6 yards. 5 x 6 = 30
Some folks need to 10 in the morning; 10 after lunch and 10 in the evening. :)
More is okay if you're strong not fatigued ...but NEVER less than 30
Post by: McDave on January 03, 2019, 07:27:45 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 03, 2019, 07:36:23 PM
I read you to be one with the metal fortitude to stay with the drills TO-THE-LETTER. It might be nice if the fella's I sent these to, might report back with their progress on this thread now and again.
You wouldn't beleive how many emails I've sent out the last few days--several hundred.
Bad news about that is, there sure are a lot of us closet sufferers out there.
Post by: McDave on January 03, 2019, 07:48:20 PM
Post by: Jock Whisky on January 03, 2019, 10:32:36 PM
I am looking forward to this exercise. It sure makes you concentrate on a repeatable shot sequence.
Post by: David Mitchell on January 05, 2019, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 05, 2019, 07:23:05 PM
three points of reference. The result is a considerably longer draw length. Guess what that does! I have arrows now that are too short and some bows that are heavier than I care to shoot.....so I have been thinning the herd and have picked up a little bow I really love--the Galaxy Ember longbow and some more limbs for my Bear TD. I got it to start the program with a light draw weight and found that it has the best grip (for me) that I have ever had. I now have two of them. :saywhat: It sure is fun to have a good reason to pick up some new stuff. Gotta do it for my "detox" program. I'm having a ball. :bigsmyl:
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 05, 2019, 07:39:43 PM
Since you're further along than anyone else on this forum, I'm curious.....
How long has it been since you shot an arrow in complete control without the aid of a clicker, or the TARGET PANIC?
Post by: David Mitchell on January 05, 2019, 08:02:55 PM
I might mention that I am 75 years old and I am excited...so one is never too old to work on this issue. :goldtooth:
Post by: McDave on January 05, 2019, 11:27:26 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 05, 2019, 11:57:06 PM
I did try to touch on that in the last paragraph of the drills. "If you're at the range or shooting with others, just remember, just because you drew the bow, doesn't mean you have to shoot the arrow. Let down as often as needed and make sure you ONLY shoot strong controlled shots. "
We do know one thing for sure. Everyone who has followed the drills TO-THE-LETTER is reporting being able to shoot controlled shots when alone and they weren't able to do that previously.
Post by: BruceT on January 06, 2019, 10:00:31 AM
I am new , starting into day two, using a very lightweight kids bow . The concern I have is . When I let down with my regular bow ,45# @ 28" it is really hard on my bow arm shoulder . I am concerned with the transition, from kids bow to my regular bow. I'm thinking at day 22 , I should be using my regular bow .
Any suggestions ?
Bruce
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 06, 2019, 10:29:43 AM
I can only assume, if it's "hard" on your shoulders it's too much weight. I'm sure you just need to build into more weight gradually. I suggest in the drills, when you feel comfortable beginning to increase weight, you only do it by three to five pounds at time.
I'm convinced there is a direct correlation between the pressure on your body (bow weight) and the pressure on your mind. We don't want any "shock" to the system to add that extra pressure to your mind while going through the drills.
Post by: McDave on January 06, 2019, 12:07:31 PM
So everything is as realistic as I can make it, right up to the point where I would normally shoot the arrow.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 06, 2019, 01:26:27 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 06, 2019, 02:34:54 PM
Post by: mistercmath on January 10, 2019, 07:07:28 PM
First of all, thank you for your generosity. It seems like you are helping a whole bunch of archers out of the goodness of your heart.
I have a question, though. I will not be able to go out past 15 yards until the spring, and want to begin as soon as possible. Should I wait, or can I just alter the drills for my available inside distances?
Stephen Connelly
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 10, 2019, 09:14:03 PM
Post by: fnshtr on January 13, 2019, 04:55:29 PM
Post by: mistercmath on January 13, 2019, 07:02:56 PM
Thanks, again, Jim.
For the record, After finishing the program for the night, I did come upstairs and hug my new bow.
Stephen
Post by: David Mitchell on January 14, 2019, 10:14:42 AM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 14, 2019, 04:45:59 PM
Post by: McDave on January 15, 2019, 01:31:42 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 15, 2019, 02:35:42 PM
Post by: McDave on January 15, 2019, 03:16:00 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 15, 2019, 08:06:24 PM
Post by: last arrow on January 15, 2019, 10:05:58 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 16, 2019, 11:03:13 AM
Post by: mistercmath on January 18, 2019, 07:13:10 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 18, 2019, 07:41:54 PM
Post by: McDave on January 19, 2019, 10:56:52 AM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 19, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 22, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 22, 2019, 09:59:34 AM
I have just returned from a pig hunt in Florida; this was my 15th year in a row going with Osceola Outfitters. It was a cool morning as I moved in on a large, lone sow. I worked in to 15 yards and had to move slightly to my left from behind the huge palmetto to get a clear shot. As I took that step, the sow looked at me and turned slightly quartering to me. I could clearly see the seam between her neck and shoulder; I knew the anatomy, I knew how much room I had and I was confident in my ability to make the shot.
As I drew the bow, I went through my shot sequence; draw, anchor, set my back tension, keep pulling and admire the sight picture. Then, the shot was off and the carbon arrow tipped with 260 grains of Grizzly broadhead was off, found its mark and buried deep in to her chest. She took two steps and fell dead.
This is the first time I have had a "pressure" shot since I completed the drills. The report is a short one: Complete control with no anxiety or apprehension--ROCK SOLID! The first CONTROLLED shot in decades!
I shot two pigs on this trip; the results were the same with #2.
Post by: Dan Jones on January 22, 2019, 08:58:44 PM
I'm about 10 days into you program and I've done something that may be of interest to you and others trying to conquer the panic. I'm drawing and holding on a target in my basement that I have set up to be identical to what I shoot at when I'm at my archery club - a blank bale with only a white plastic bottle cap as the aiming point.
I'm doing this because my panic is clearly triggered by the sight picture. I'm hoping that drawing and holding on that exact target will desensitize me to that target and end the panic.
In years past I've done about a million draw and hold exercises at a blank bale without any lasting success so I'm hoping this step will bring a different result. Your thoughts?
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 22, 2019, 09:07:17 PM
Quote from: Dan Jones on January 22, 2019, 08:58:44 PM
Jim Casto:
... I'm doing this because my panic is clearly triggered by the sight picture. I'm hoping that drawing and holding on that exact target will desensitize me to that target and end the panic.
In years past I've done about a million draw and hold exercises at a blank bale without any lasting success so I'm hoping this step will bring a different result. Your thoughts?
Dan,
That is EXACTLY what these drills were designed to do. I could blank bale very well and it's a good exercise to work on form, but.... there's always a but, you know... when I introduced aiming, I blew up. These drills will MAKE you aim and WILL eventually "desensitize" your need to release the string.
Post by: Dan Jones on January 23, 2019, 10:27:50 AM
Jim,
I hope you are right that at some point the sight picture will no longer trigger the shot. I'm twelve days into the program and I can tell that I'm not there yet. As I have said to you previously, I don't think that target panic begins - or at least my decades long version of the panic - began as a mental problem. It began as an eye/hand problem - i.e. the eye sees a sight picture and tells the brain to release. It is that cause/effect connection that has to be broken or desensitized. A clicker never worked for me because it didn't break that connection. I believe that for me switching hands did work to escape the panic because the sight picture was very different and the arrow was no longer anchored under my dominant eye.
We shall see. Thanks again for your efforts to help people overcome target panic.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 23, 2019, 01:47:42 PM
I guess the question is, "Are some folks simply unable to retrain the brain and not HAVE to release the string?" My guess is, there are. However, since your 12 days in, I assume you haven't released the arrow--right? If so, you're making progress, so, just stay put until you're completely comfortable at anchor while aiming. There's no rule that you have to advance to the next step on a certain day. I stress in the drills to NEVER advance beyond your complete control.
Of the hundreds of folks I've sent these drills to, I hoping above all that you find some relief. I know how frustrating this darn stuff is.
Post by: Dan Jones on January 23, 2019, 02:46:53 PM
As I have said, I've done a whole lot of these draw and hold exercises over the years and I can sense that the panic is still right there waiting for me. I believe that I'll know when or - if -the uncontrollable release is gone. In previous draw and hold efforts, the panic was alway there when I first tried to shoot an arrow. If I remember correctly, I once did the draw and hold on a blank bale for six weeks and didn't put a dent in the damn panic! Maybe this time.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on January 23, 2019, 03:21:40 PM
I'm thinking you might just stay close (very close), aim while holding and just stay put there until you "feel" comfortable. There's really no need for you to go to more distance until you get it down up close.
Everyone I've communicated with has had the NEED to shoot leave them in just a few days. You're a tough one, but I'm confident if you stay close, immerse in aiming and let down, that desire will fail--sooner or later. :)
Never advance beyond your complete control.
Post by: jeff w on January 23, 2019, 04:36:19 PM
Drawing, and holding, a little different than drawing and letting fly. 2-in addition to controlling the release, I feel that I am coming to full draw with a consistent anchor.
Determined to follow it through as prescribed. Once complete will keep a copy to refer to as a refresher if needed. Thanks again Jim!
Post by: David Mitchell on January 24, 2019, 04:33:30 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on January 29, 2019, 12:02:13 PM
Day 1 began....stand 3 FEET from the target, draw, anchor, set back tension, immerse yourself in aiming, and let down. Do this 30 times! Seriously? Yes. Seemed mighty close-up--but heck, who couldn't manage that! I determined to do the drills just as spelled out--no short cuts, no cheating, no releasing an arrow before the time. Looked like a long time ahead doing daily drills but I have struggled with that stuff for waaaay too long. I committed to do it as prescribed.
Some of you who have been there and done that can relate to my joy at finally being able to back out to 30 yards and make a controlled shot. Those who have never had it won't be able to grasp the joy that brings.
This has been the start of a new day for my archery, I believe. I have increased my draw length quite a bit in the process (at Jim's suggestion) and thus now have some bows too heavy and arrows too short. But a small price to pay....and new reason to get some new stuff.
I want to openly thank my good friend, Jim, for putting me on the way to where I am today. Will it last, you may ask. I now have the tools to keep working with into the future and I intend to do so. I honestly believe that if an archer new to shooting, especially traditional bows, begins first with this series of drills they may very well never develop the problem. To others who are somewhere along the way whether day 1 or 50, stay the course!
:clapper:
Post by: mistercmath on January 29, 2019, 07:36:42 PM
Interesting you should mention your increased draw length. I notice an additional inch in mine. Not sure how much of this is due to the light poundage bow I am using for the program, or whether it has come from a more careful shot cycle.
I also have a much better anchor and more consistent back tension. These are all new for me. I've been shooting trad bows for about two and a half years, now, and over-bowed myself from the get-go. I certainly wish I had done Jim's program before ever shooting any arrows. The increase in confidence is nice, too.
That's really inspiring, and I'm only done with the first 14 days. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Post by: David Mitchell on January 29, 2019, 07:47:46 PM
Post by: mistercmath on January 29, 2019, 08:11:37 PM
It now seems like that is the likely outcome now. I don't have any trouble holding and aiming (staring at the spot). Hallelujah, brother!
Post by: McDave on January 29, 2019, 08:58:22 PM
Post by: Jock Whisky on January 29, 2019, 10:46:10 PM
Post by: Mark R on February 01, 2019, 03:03:51 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on February 01, 2019, 05:34:29 PM
Post by: Dan Jones on February 01, 2019, 06:39:59 PM
Post by: McDave on February 01, 2019, 07:48:34 PM
Post by: Mark R on February 02, 2019, 08:06:27 PM
Post by: McDave on February 03, 2019, 03:47:05 PM
Post by: Dan Jones on February 03, 2019, 04:39:50 PM
McDave,
You are fortunate to be able to hold until the "nervous feeling" or impulse to release passes. Despite numerous serious, sustained attempts over the years, I've never been able to reach that point. The sight picture triggers my release and no draw and hold exercises or any other approach has been able to stop that. Fortunately, I don't have the panic when shooting from my right side, which to my mind raises a serious question about the standard explanation that target panic is invariably a mental problem. After it sets in, target panic clearly creates a mental problem for the afflicted, but does it really begin there in all cases? I doubt it.
Post by: McDave on February 03, 2019, 05:16:37 PM
If one is unable to draw and hold and aim regardless of whether there is an intention to shoot or not, then I think it would be reasonable to look for other causes.
Post by: Dan Jones on February 03, 2019, 08:40:26 PM
I can usually draw, hold and aim if there is no intention to shoot, although I can feel the impulse to release right there and sometimes an arrow will get away from me. I can draw, hold and release perfectly with no panic impulse if I do not aim at anything, such as shooting arrows into an open field.
Knock on wood, but I think that I have not experienced the panic by switching to the right side because the sight picture is very different. I'm no longer anchoring under my dominant eye and I no longer see down the arrow pointing to the spot I'm aiming at. Shooting right handed, the sight picture doesn't seem to trigger the release. I don't think that fear of missing or an overwhelming desire to hit the target or any other mental issue is the cause of my target panic.
Post by: McDave on February 04, 2019, 12:01:01 AM
So with you, the target panic results from aiming, whereas with me, the target panic results from the intention to shoot.
I think Jim's program might help you, even more than it is helping me, because his program requires you to draw and hold and aim, and then let down, many times. This should help to desensitize you to the fear of aiming.
My problem is more indirect: fear of shooting. Jim's program is helping me too, by having me hold at full draw many times in full control with confidence, and then letting down. Even though I could hold at full draw and aim when I had target panic as long as I had no intention to shoot, I only did this occasionally out of frustration, not really enough to ingrain the feeling of confidence from doing it many times. Once I had ingrained the feeling of holding at full draw and aiming without any compulsion to release early as the new norm, through many repetitions, then I think my mind was able to downgrade the compulsion to shoot to a transitory nervous sensation, and separate the nervous sensation from the act of shooting the bow. At least I hope that's what is happening.
In your case, since your target panic seems to be more related to aiming, which is addressed more directly in his program than my fear of shooting is, I think it will be even more effective than it was with me. Jim's program is based on repeating a movement that caused target panic many times until your mind is desensitized to it, which is missing from other programs I have studied. And the number or repetitions is consistent with other studies I have read on breaking bad habits: 60 days. It seems like a lot, but it is a realistic estimate of the MINIMUM time required to break a bad habit.
Post by: David Mitchell on February 04, 2019, 01:33:36 PM
One other thing McDave mentioned is the great value in Jim's program of having to aim right from the start. I think that has helped me a lot. Like you, I could get to full draw and aim as long as I had no intention to shoot, AND as long as there was nothing resembling a target in front of me.
Post by: mistercmath on February 04, 2019, 09:57:25 PM
I'll admit that I had almost zero faith in this system, and here I am after 1/3 of the program and I do not feel the person inside of my head trying to let go of the string ! That is a beautiful thing.
Thanks for this, Jim.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on February 04, 2019, 10:18:07 PM
The goal is eliminate the need to open your fingers and release the string before YOU want to. For some, that will be freedom from the demon; for others, it will be the ability to overcome him and shoot only controlled shots. The end results for both scenarios is....VICTORY. :)
Post by: mistercmath on February 05, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
My conclusion: I will do the 22nd day over tomorrow, and the next day, etc., until I feel enough of that complete control that I crave. It's not here yet. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
It's like Dave was telling earlier. The intention to shoot has a roll in my ability to control the shot. Interesting problem here.
Post by: BruceT on February 21, 2019, 08:20:15 AM
Post by: goingoldskool on February 24, 2019, 07:27:47 PM
Post by: BruceT on February 25, 2019, 09:36:58 AM
The "Paper trail" created by Jim keeps me on track.
Drawing and letting down, requires a lot more exertion than drawing and shooting.
When letting down, moving bow arm slowly upwards, is easiest on the bow arm shoulder for me .
Still struggling a little bit with the release, hold a few seconds and sometimes that trigger , isn't very consistent ?? Hard for me to explain .
Anyway , there is "Light at the end of the tunnel".
Thanks again Jim
Post by: Mark R on February 25, 2019, 05:55:32 PM
Post by: McDave on March 07, 2019, 01:29:41 AM
Other programs attempt to deal with target panic while continuing to shoot the bow. To me this seems like trying to repair a parachute while in the air on the way down to the ground. Some sort of repair may be possible, but if the objective is to have controlled, relaxed shots, why not do the repair in an environment where controlled relaxed aiming is possible?
Post by: Mark R on March 07, 2019, 11:54:58 AM
Post by: David Mitchell on March 09, 2019, 01:37:36 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on March 10, 2019, 10:05:53 AM
Quote from: McDave on March 07, 2019, 01:29:41 AM
...Before you ever shoot a shot in Jim's program, you really know what it feels like to have a solid, relaxed hold at anchor, at full draw, aiming at the target...
... is to have controlled, relaxed shots, why not do the repair in an environment where controlled relaxed aiming is possible?
Dave,
You just summed up the entire program with those few words. With the type of target panic I had/have, I could never get relaxed at full draw while aiming and it led to premature and/or erratic releases. That's not the case now for many others and me after going thru these drills.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on March 21, 2019, 05:57:43 PM
...draw, anchor, set your back muscles, aim, keep pulling toward conclusion, then saying to yourself, I can either shoot or let down, and having the control to do either at any given time.
:)
Post by: McDave on April 04, 2019, 10:56:46 AM
My initial concern about not being able to carry over the ability to make controlled shots when shooting with others proved to be groundless. I can make controlled shots under most conditions if I do everything else right. Stated another way, I never feel compelled to release the shot before I am ready. Jim's course is not a panacea for everything. If I don't concentrate, I will blow the shot. If I pluck, I will blow the shot. Both of these are examples of uncontrolled shots, but are different from feeling compelled to release the shot early, and there are specific things I can do on the next shot to correct these errors. Actually, before Jim's course, I never could have told you that I missed a particular shot because I wasn't concentrating, because all the shots were gone so soon I didn't really know if I was concentrating or not.
One interesting, and somewhat ironic consequence of Jim's course happened during the 3D competition. I was shooting with a favorite competitor of mine, and I was cleaning his clock through the first half of the match. In the second half, my groups began to spread out and I began missing targets. By the end of the match, he had edged me out. The reason was that my strength began to fade in the second half. People noticed my bow arm shaking and mentioned it to me. I think the reason was that with my newfound ability to hold, I was using up my endurance sooner that I would have if I were rushing my shots. The match involved shooting 84 arrows at targets, plus whatever we shot in practice, or about 100 arrows total. This is more than I usually shoot with my friends in the morning. While it is hard to get stronger at 74, it is not impossible, and my new goal is to get strong enough to shoot 84 arrows without running out of gas. The only other alternative is to change to a lighter bow than the 40# bow I currently use for 3D and practice, but I love that bow and don't want to change.
The bottom line is that Jim's program will help you to build a strong foundation, so that the image of shooting relaxed and under control is burned into your mind, and this foundation will not crack under stress.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on April 06, 2019, 01:01:59 AM
We've all heard tems like, SURPRISE RELEASE or, JUST LET THE SHOT HAPPEN. Unfortunately, for decades, I didn't have a clue what those terms meant, until I went through these drills. You can't have a surprise release, or just let it happen until you have a relaxed hold while aiming.
Len Cardinale uses the term, "maintainable state." It's simply maintaining tension while aiming. He stated something to the effect that when you reach maintainable state, you immerse in aiming, then all you have to do is go to conclusion.
That's what these drills are designed to accomplish.
Post by: McDave on April 06, 2019, 11:34:53 AM
Nor did it jive with my knowledge that people have been using the bow for uncounted generations, even before humans had agriculture, to hunt and provide food for their families. How did cave men solve the problem of target panic? Did they put clickers on their bows? I believe that they found ways to control their own minds and bodies. I doubt if they used your method (sorry Jim) but they found some way to do it or they would have starved and we wouldn't be here.
So I have returned to using the surprise release, now that I am in sufficient control once again to use it. I think the advantage of the surprise release over an artificial trigger is that we get to use our subconscious mind to help us. Who knows if our arrow is pointed exactly where it should be when the artificial trigger goes off? Nor can we make a conscious decision to release the arrow without anticipating the release and triggering involuntary reactions within our own bodies that spoil the shot. I think the subconscious mind is able to pick the ideal instant to release the shot without triggering any pre-shot flinch reaction.
I saw an example of this one day when I was watching an older former champion shooting in a state indoor championship. His bow arm was visibly shaking at full draw. With his shakes, I would expect a pattern of hits in maybe a 6" circle around the 3" bullseye, but he was putting shot after shot into the bullseye, better than younger people shooting at his side were doing with rock solid bow arms. He was not using an artificial trigger. I believe he was using a subconscious release, and it was guiding him to release the arrow at the precise moment needed to counteract the shake. I had better learn to do this myself, as I am getting the same arm shakes that the contender had.
Obviously, using a clicker CAN increase accuracy because it controls draw length as well as providing an artificial trigger, or the Olympic archers wouldn't be using them. But if your goal is to shoot as accurately as you can with the least amount of artificial assistance possible, then a subconscious release has advantages beyond the obvious.
Post by: fnshtr on April 06, 2019, 01:51:30 PM
Post by: David Mitchell on April 07, 2019, 07:45:27 PM
Post by: rnrs on May 09, 2019, 10:50:56 PM
I have had TP for about 50 years - tough to break. Do I go back to lighter bows and closer distance?
Thanks, Rick Wilson
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 09, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
Let me ask you a question. On what day and at what distance did you first notice any anxiety creeping in?
Post by: rnrs on May 09, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 09, 2019, 11:57:30 PM
Unfortunately, a lot of folks will "read" the drills, and then start the program, but very few will "study" the drills and follow my advice throughout.
To answer your question, let me simply quote from the document itself:
"Before you begin, you'll have to ask yourself if you're willing to spend at least 63-days (maybe more) on a STRICT regimen of drills..."
"Depending on how badly you're afflicted with this devil, you may not be able to advance, or extend your distance as quickly, or feel as comfortable as we'd like. So.... if at any time you're not comfortable, slow up and go back to the previous step. We're in no hurry here; stay with it—you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. NEVER stress yourself; don't let any anxiety come it. Stay where you are, or go back a step or two. Do NOT try to advance until you KNOW you're ready to."
"You must NEVER try to advance beyond your COMPLETE control. You have to pay the price and it'll be worth it in the end--trust me."
"***If at any time the anxiety creeps back in, just go back to the previous step. Repeat it until it's gone, then advance to the next."
Honestly, if you've suffered with this devil for 50 years, it may take you a year or two to complete the drills as specified. I have gotten many PM's and emails asking similar questions and my answer is always the same.... NEVER try to advance beyond your COMPLETE control. It's that simple. When the first hint of anxiety comes in, you have to stay put until it's gone. You have the pay the price to overcome the demon. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be at times.
Post by: rnrs on May 10, 2019, 12:03:51 AM
I will really miss not shooting more arrows! Is that your recommendation? rick
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 10, 2019, 12:23:25 AM
Post by: BruceT on May 10, 2019, 09:51:22 AM
I guess back to Day 22 for me as well . In some ways not shooting isn't a loss as a feel I have elevations pretty much engrained . Shooting Left and Right was horrendous !
Just to clarify, shooting with no anxiety and having control, means you attain anchor and back tension and then really hone in on the aiming , when all good you release ?
Thanks Rick for bringing this up and thanks Jim for explaining the process.
I'm 67 , likely had the demon for most of my shooting years , a little blip in there with wheels . A lot of those years I likely didn't realize what it was , partially because of a shooting style , where as soon as you touched anchor,it was gone.
"That's my story ". Bruce
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 10, 2019, 10:01:29 AM
Yes. You have to get the to place where you can be "comfortable" while aiming. Once you can comfortably set your back and aim, then you can go to conclusion. The least bit of anxiety is a signal to "stay put", or go back a step.
Bruce,
It sounds like you have made some great progress. You just advanced too quickly. :)
Post by: McDave on May 10, 2019, 07:24:28 PM
QuoteYes. You have to get the to place where you can be "comfortable" while aiming. Once you can comfortably set your back and aim, then you can go to conclusion. The least bit of anxiety is a signal to "stay put", or go back a step.
This has been my guiding thought since finishing Jim's program. At my age, with the number of years of target panic I've experienced, I may never reach the place where I can draw and shoot the bow competitively or in front of an audience without experiencing some level of anxiety. What Jim's program gave me was the knowledge that I can ALWAYS draw the bow under control and without anxiety if I am alone and close to the target. My body has memorized this feeling through many repetitions, and I know when I have it and when I don't.
The first thing I had to do is to make an agreement with myself that I will not shoot a shot unless I feel relaxed and under control. I found that as soon as I allowed any rushed shots, pretty soon all of my shots are rushed. The easiest way to avoid a rushed shot is to let the bow down, as Jim recommends. This not only avoids that particular rushed shot, but trains your body that your response to feeling rushed will be to let the bow down and not shoot the shot, so it becomes easier to let shots down in the future.
The other thing I do, which I haven't heard Jim recommend, is to wait until the rushed or anxious feeling goes away. To do this, allow yourself to fully experience the rushed or anxious feeling, rather than trying to avoid it, while holding at full draw. This feeling is not a mandate to rush the shot, it is simply a bad feeling without any deeper meaning. I find that after a while of holding at full draw, the rushed or anxious feeling goes away, and then I can focus on aiming feeling relaxed and under control. I don't wait until I feel the rushed or anxious feeling to decide to do this. I acknowledge before I even start shooting that I will probably have rushed or anxious feelings, and commit to holding however long it takes for the bad feelings to go away before I aim and shoot. I make the same commitment before each shot. The bad feelings usually go away within a few seconds of reaching full draw, so it isn't like I'm holding for much longer that I should be holding anyway. My fallback is that if I have to hold so long I begin to collapse, I will let down the shot, but realistically, this hasn't happened.
Sometimes I mix both methods: letting down some shots and holding through the anxiety on others.
Try this; maybe it will work for you too.
Post by: rnrs on May 10, 2019, 08:26:40 PM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 12, 2019, 06:44:31 AM
McDave's post brought me back for a reality check. I may have given you guys some unrealistic expectations in my last post so let me try to clarify some. Everyone, experiences some shot anxiety at times whether they suffer from TP, or not.
We sufferers may never completely get over the anxiety and urge to shoot at times (rush the shot). The objective for us is to learn to overcome those urges and shoot only controlled shots. I handle mine by letting down and starting over; some folks hold thru it until those urges leave, and like McDave, some do both. The objective is, as stated in the document, "...If you're willing to pay the price, put in the time and not cheat, you may end up like me and be thrilled that the demon is gone; if not gone, at least under control—FINALLY! ?"
Post by: BruceT on May 12, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
I started Day 22 ,on Friday and did two 30 shot sessions yesterday, and I think I was in control . I'm kinda thinking that I might just build the program into my regular practice session . Regular practice, was to go out in backyard, shoot for about a half hour. A lot of times that first one was poor , because I rushed . Lots of left, right misses . I would blame the miss on plucking , back tension, eye not over arrow etc. But I think , I was just not aiming intently. When I did aim intently , I had good back pressure and the release just happened on its own. Anyway, the problem seemed to be to much shooting trying to fix a problem, and all I was doing was engraining a bad habit .
On a positive note, I have the most beautiful outdoor range , shaded by oak trees , and a round bale to shoot at . Longest distance being 50 yards. It really won't be an imposition to redo the last half of the program . I have three and a half months to get it sorted !
Bruce
Post by: popseal on May 13, 2019, 11:36:46 AM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on May 13, 2019, 11:45:38 AM
I've never seen a target panic sufferer who couldn't blank bail or go thru their shot sequence with their eyes closed. I feely admit we're all different and YMMV.
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on October 16, 2019, 07:53:37 PM
The only requirement on your part is.... I expect to hear reports along the way. :)
Post by: Mark R on October 21, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
Post by: Jim Casto Jr on October 21, 2019, 11:45:44 AM
I encourage throughout the revised version, when you anchor, press your anchor fingers into your face as hard as you can while pulling as hard as you can at the same time. It appears to shorten the control curve a great deal.
Post by: Mark R on October 21, 2019, 02:01:59 PM
Post by: JC Jr on March 12, 2020, 07:10:00 PM
Jim Casto, Jr.
Post by: Sam McMichael on March 12, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
Post by: JC Jr on March 12, 2020, 09:12:03 PM
I believe the drills will address your situation regardless of the cause.
Post by: anchorman on May 21, 2020, 02:33:36 AM
Post by: JC Jr on May 21, 2020, 08:06:51 AM
I just sent you a PM. You should be able to respond by return path.
Post by: David Mitchell on July 13, 2020, 01:40:12 PM
Post by: BruceT on August 01, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
My practice routine has changed immensely from flinging non stop to a more calculated , take your time kinda session, that has a few hold and let downs, built in as well . When I screw up I have a little better idea of what I did wrong, which can vary from not having back pressure, to simply not aiming with intensity.
I have a few observations that I would like to pass on ;
1– Care needs to be taken when letting down , especially with the heavier weight bows . If you're not careful, you can hurt your bow arm shoulder. I let down slowly, and lower the bow .
2– Doing this program in the off-season is not any kind of hardship, at least not for me. January and February in Manitoba are cold, I did the program in my garage and was limited with the distance, but made it work .
3– The fact that you have a sheet of paper , with days and expectations for certain days, to follow, gave me a sense of accomplishment . Even without releasing an arrow. Without this specific chart style of program , I really doubt I would have finished to entirety, and I did the program twice, and will likely do it again this winter. I guess a benefit of getting older and being retired .
4– For anyone suffering from the "Demon" you need to give this program a shot, you won't regret it !!
Anyway ,Thanks again Jim ...Stay Safe !!
Bruce Turner
Post by: JC Jr on August 02, 2020, 09:12:00 AM
Unfortunately, very few are willing follow the directions. They refuse to pay the price and never arrive at the final goal of gaining control over this damnable devil.
Post by: McDave on August 02, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Post by: JC Jr on August 03, 2020, 09:20:05 AM
You're certainly right, it does take commitment to follow the program.
My personal experience has been the importance of maintenance once the program is completed. At this point in my life (old guy with a 30 year history of target panic) it is most important to incorporate the drills in my practice routine to keep the demon at bay. I've found that I absolutely MUST have a 1:1 ratio in my practice sessions. That is to say, I draw, anchor, frame my shot, expand and letdown every time from every distance, then follow up with one shot.
Post by: McDave on August 03, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
Quote from: JC Jr on August 03, 2020, 09:20:05 AM
My personal experience has been the importance of maintenance once the program is completed. At this point in my life (old guy with a 30 year history of target panic) it is most important to incorporate the drills in my practice routine to keep the demon at bay. I've found that I absolutely MUST have a 1:1 ratio in my practice sessions. That is to say, I draw, anchor, frame my shot, expand and letdown every time from every distance, then follow up with one shot.
I have found this to be critical as well. I found that over time I fell into the habit again of rushing my shots and not really aiming. I would tell myself to hold a little longer and aim, but telling myself to hold and aim doesn't seem to work any better than wishing I could lose some weight. To be able to hold and aim or to lose weight, you actually have to do something about it, wishing really doesn't seem to help very much.
For me, it took two practice sessions of 1:1 alternating drawing and letting down with drawing and shooting to get back on track. Since a normal practice session for me is about 50 arrows, this was about 100 arrows over two days. This was about a month ago, and I find that I can comfortably hold, aim and shoot now without alternating with aim and let down. However, I'm sure this isn't the end of the story, and my goal now is to notice sooner when I drift back into the old bad habits, and have a 1:1 practice session before wasting too much time hoping that things will get better on their own.
Post by: JC Jr on August 09, 2020, 08:17:18 PM
Post by: Fattony77 on November 02, 2020, 04:42:06 AM
Post by: JC Jr on November 02, 2020, 05:56:25 AM
Post by: JC Jr on October 02, 2021, 06:53:59 PM
In any event, good luck to you. If you'll follow the drills to-the-letter and NEVER advance beyond your COMPLETE control, you'll be able to control the demon or beat him completely.
:)
Post by: BrentWatts on February 02, 2024, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: Jim Casto Jr on January 06, 2019, 01:26:27 PM
I had to laugh at that one Dave. I couldn't keep track either. :) I had to take a pencil and write it down as I went along.
Any chance I can get a copy of the program?
Thanks!
Post by: JC Jr on February 02, 2024, 04:59:35 PM
If that doesn't work just PM me your email address.
Post by: BrentWatts on February 02, 2024, 05:00:33 PM
Post by: JC Jr on January 31, 2025, 01:55:57 PM
I've heard that only goal-oriented folks suffer from target panic and process oriented folks never suffer from it. I believe that to be true and these drills are designed to make you take complete control of your shot sequence. You ABSOLUTELY MUST concentrate on each and every aspect of your shot sequence while performing these drills. Make sure you do each step before proceeding to the next and only then are you permitted to even consider releasing an arrow. If there is a breakdown in that shot process you'll need to let down and start over.
To quote Bill Jinks, "Rehab: Involves a value system overhaul placing execution over result along with retraining of the mind exercising strict adherence to a shot sequence."
The drills and spreadsheet can be accessed in the attachment below.
Post by: JC Jr on March 09, 2025, 09:03:41 AM
Target Panic—the cure?
By: Jim Casto, Jr.
Updated January 31, 2025
By: Jim Casto, Jr.
Updated January 31, 2025
If you'd like to review and download the updated drills to control this damnable devil, just download the PDF file below.
Post by: McDave on March 11, 2025, 11:09:54 AM
Quote from: JC Jr on January 31, 2025, 01:55:57 PM
NOTE: The Target Panic Drills have been updated as of January 31, 2025 to include the following paragraphs:
I've heard that only goal-oriented folks suffer from target panic and process oriented folks never suffer from it. I believe that to be true and these drills are designed to make you take complete control of your shot sequence. You ABSOLUTELY MUST concentrate on each and every aspect of your shot sequence while performing these drills. Make sure you do each step before proceeding to the next and only then are you permitted to even consider releasing an arrow. If there is a breakdown in that shot process you'll need to let down and start over.
To quote Bill Jinks, "Rehab: Involves a value system overhaul placing execution over result along with retraining of the mind exercising strict adherence to a shot sequence."
The drills and spreadsheet can be accessed in the attachment below.
I have been a supporter of your system for a long time, Jim. The time in between taking your program and now has been full of ups and downs, many relapses and a few successes. Some days are so bad that no matter how many practice drills I do or how long I try to hold through the storm, I can't beat it. Some days are so good that I wonder what the fuss is all about.
The reason I quoted your bold text is that it supports my own belief that ALL targets panic is a result of anticipation. Goal orientation is itself a form of anticipation. Process orientation means keeping one's mind in the present moment. This isn't something that process oriented people aspire to, it's just the way they are. Lucky them. I've always considered myself to be a process oriented person too, but I also anticipate things a lot, which has helped me in life, but not so much in archery.
The very worst form of anticipation for we who suffer from target panic is the anticipation of target panic itself. Roosevelt said, "we have nothing to fear but fear itself." That is not just a call to be brave, but is literally true when it comes to target panic: there is nothing to fear from drawing and shooting the bow; the only thing we have to fear is the anticipation of having another target panic attack. Which is exactly what brings it on!
Obviously, the fear of having another target panic attack is something that only a person who already has target panic can have. But this is a fear that looms large in the minds of target panic sufferers, much larger than whatever the original cause of target panic may have been, which i doubt that most people can even identify. The fear of having another target panic attack is a cascading fear, that is amplified each time it occurs.
If I am correct about this, finding a permanent cure to target panic means finding a way to avoid anticipation, i.e. a way to keep the mind in the present moment, where there is no anticipation, where we are totally focused on what is happening around and within us. On my good days, I must be able to do that; i just don't know how to do it whenever i want to.
Please don't take anything I say as a criticism of your system. I recommend it to everyone, and benefitted greatly from taking your program. It left me with an important tool in my bag, that I use every time I shoot, as I continue to struggle with what will probably be a lifelong challenge, but a challenge that I willingly accept.