Trad Gang

Hopefully this draft list satisfies several collectors' requests for information about identifying Kodiak Specials. If clarification or corrections are needed, let me know... undoubtedly there are some errors/typos in this initial draft... Gaps between lengths were inserted to align text.

1955 - 60", 64",....... 68",....... – Gray glass back, brown glass belly, decal logos
1956 - 60", 64",....... 68",....... – Gray glass back, brown glass belly, silk screen logos
1957 - 62", 64", 66, 68", 70" – Tan glass, 2-color tombstone sight window
1958 - 62", 64", 66, 68", 70" – Tan glass, rosewood sight window
1959 - 62", 64", 66, 68", 70" – Gray glass back, white glass belly, flared riser inset over belly glass
1960 - 62", 64", 66, 68", 70" – Gray glass back, white glass belly, crescent riser inset under belly glass

    (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS-5560A.jpg)

Bear introduced the Kodiak Special in 1955. The identical bow was produced in 1956. Because Bear changed from water transfer decals to silk screens at some point from 1955-56, collectors use the cosmetic features, decals vs silk screens, to satisfy our anal retentive need to define these two identical bows into two separate years.  

Other cosmetic features such coins, serial numbers, overlays, underlays, etc are unreliable in dating Kodiak Specials. These cosmetic features should be avoided in dating Kodiak Specials.

Countless legitimate variations of the 1955-1960 Kodiak Special are in existence, e.g., in 1959 and 1960 numerous laminated wood combinations were used in the risers. Also many experimental Kodiak Specials were produced as well as many bows that transitioned features from one year to the next. Note: some of these lengths were not advertised, but were actually produced.

The Kodiak Special DeLuxe

1960 - 62", 64", 66, 68", 70" – Clear glass over Zebrawood veneer laminations, flared riser inset under glass

    (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KSD-1.jpg)

The Kodiak Special DeLuxe was offered only in 1960. Like the 1959 and 1960 Kodiak Specials, numerous laminated wood combinations were used in the risers.

1961 – 1967 Kodiak Specials listed in Bear Catalogs

1961 – 63", 66", 69" – Soft Green glass, Zebrawood Riser
1962 – 63", 66", 69" – Soft Green glass, Brazilian Rosewood Riser
1963 – 63", 66", 69" – White glass, Rosewood Caps, Bubinga Riser, Shelf in front of Caps         
1964 – 63", 66", 69" – White glass, Rosewood Caps, Bengal Wood Riser, Rounded Sight Window Corner
1965 – ....... 66", 69" – White glass, Brazilian Rosewood Caps, Brazilian Bubinga Riser, Scalloped Sight Window Corner
1966 – ....... 66", 69" – White glass, Golden Rosewood Riser, Brazilian Rosewood Strip along belly       
1967 – ....... 66", 69" – White glass, Zebrawood Riser, Angled Black Phenolic Inset

66" bows are shown below...

 (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS61-67C.jpg)

Countless legitimate variations of the 1961-1967 Kodiak Special are in existence, e.g., in ...in 1966, handle sizes were offered in small, standard, large, in both regular or pistol grip, making a total of 6 handle variations.

Thought we might see more activity on this thread in compiling of our list 1959 Kodiak Specials so moved this list from the thread...  "Val's 1959 Kodiak Special 62" "

As of 2-22-2010 we have over 50 recorded 1959 Kodiak Specials and some trends are beginning to show up...

Updated 10-19-2016

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc to Tom to Bill
1959 62", 27# - VA161R - Tom
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays  - Hoof
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck


1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 32# - WA728 - underlays - Mike
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 50# - WB083 - underlays - LH - Norm
1959 64", 45# - WB448 - underlays - Bob (ser # mismarked during refinish)
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill
1959 64", 45# - WB998 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 34# - WC191 - jr1959
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 48# - WC613L - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Hoof
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 50# - WL570 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R - no underlays - Wade sold


1959 66", 42# - XA411 - underlays - ****
1959 66", 55# - XA523 -  underlays - Hoof
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-2009
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 40# - XB62  - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 66", 42# - XB084 - underlays - Auction
1959 66", 42# - XB348 - underlays - Auction 2-14-2010
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 42# - XC412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 35# - XE879 - no underlays - Auction
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no overlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 49# - XE593L - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 49# - XE683 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 66", 50# - XE697 - no underlays - ****
1959 66", 40# - XE904 - no underlays - Jack
1959 66", 42# - XF074 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 66", 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry M
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF790 - Auction 2-13-2010
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck

1959 68", 50# - YA097 - underlays - Hobow
1959 68", 37# - YA309 - underlays - warpedarrow
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays  - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 42# - YA419 - underlays - Shandor
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-2008 Auction
1959 68", 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 55# - YA540 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 68", 44# - YA869 - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YC039 - no underlays - Trap
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 68", 58# - 19RX33 - no underlays - MarkG


1959 70", 40#@29 ZA067 - underlays - Minnesota hunter
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 47# - ZA488 - no underlays - Auction
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
1959 70", 50# - 5VX26 - no underlays - Trap


On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.

                                                                  (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)

1960 Kodiak Special Deluxe, Top 5 Bows
1960 Kodiak Special, Middle 5 Bows
1959 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 5 Bows

    (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1960KSD1.jpg)

Below
1958 Kodiak Specials, Top 5 Bows, 70", 68", 66", 64", 62"
1957 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 6 Bows, 70", 68", 66", 64", 62", 62" (bottom 62" has unusual sight window)

  (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/57-58KS.jpg)

Below
1956 Kodiak Specials, Top 3 Bows, 68", 64", 60"
1955 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 5 Bows, 68", 68", 64", 64", 60" (duplicate lengths, have unusual sight windows)

Note different limb and riser shape of 60" bows...

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS55-56.jpg)

Will get more photographs loaded later...

Wow Wade! We will be spoiled for sure!

Bjorn - After we worked on the static Grizzly ID, I got several questions on Kodiak Specials. Figure we might as well just get the information on one thread so we will all have a good reference.

some more for the 1959 list:
1959 KS 62" 42# VA040 underlay
1959 KS 64" 52# WL197
1959 KS 66" 43# XA969 underlay
1959 KS 66" 49# XD178
1959 KS 68" 55# 9YX29

Wade,I have a KSD 70" long--Ser# TA-o78#40---This bow has a nickel silver coin...I've always been kinda wondering if its the correct one.Rick...

Bjorn - Thanks for sending the data on you 59 KS. Looks like you have been hoarding them too...

I added them to the list which is shown on the third post from the top.

We now have 34 1959 KS on the list... it is getting more interesting. Would like to see at least 50 before we start to analyze the data.

Wade, hat off to you

Rick - I don't put much store in coins being proper for the year, especially for 1959 and 1960. I know some guys do put a lot of store in dating bows by the coins.

Frankly any coin, could have been put in any bow, at any time, by any one, any where, in the world.

According to the "Coin Experts", 1959 is supposed to be copper and 1960 is supposed to be aluminum.

I have owned more 1960 Kodiaks with copper coins then aluminum.

I have owned more 1960 Kodiak Specials with aluminum coins rather then copper.

I have owned more 1960 Kodiak Special DeLuxes with Copper rather then aluminum.

If I owned your KSD, I would leave it just like it is provided that the coin has a flat surface. The coin is a little too small in the photograph to see the surface clearly.

Wade I have one for your 59 list.
59 KS 66" 44# XD049 no underlays
                                 ....Scott

Thanks Wade.I took it to K-zoo about 5 years ago to find something out about it & a couple of guys almost came to blows arguing about the coin.Is the Zebra-wood KS anything special...

Scott - Thanks for posting the data for your 59 KS. I just edited the list, we now have 35...

Rick - Cosmetic features such as coins are not reliable methods for dating bows.

Your Zebrawood KS is a 1961. The 66" is the most common length of KS for that year. Fairly common bow. The 70" KSD is far less common and worth more as a collectible.

Heres my 56'.  A fine shooting bow. 68" 48@28. I'm guessing it has the original Rug and Strikeplate.  I left it as is.  Might eventually have it refinished as it has the unsitely finish issues at the tips.

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0449.jpg)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0448.jpg)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/KodiakSpecial5.jpg)

This water transfer was on it when I got it.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0450.jpg)

Tim - A lot of the 1950s Kodiak Specials have the same finish problems in the recurved area like yours. Maybe BowDoc can give us an explanation about what is going with the finish there.

Wade, I noticed that as well and it was predominately on the 55-56's that I've seen this.  Maybe it was something with the grey glass and the type of finish.  It doesn't affect the the way the bow shoots at all, and the wrinkled finish is still pretty tough finish, I can't get it to pick off with my fingernail like brittle finish would.  Feels like wrinkled plastic. I'd be interested in knowing more.

I'll post up some pics and info about those Tim.Thats actually somewhat common on those years and it is not in the finish.Those little wrinkled plastic-ie like feeling stuff is really in the fiberglass.I have a 1956 all striped down out in my shop.I will get some pics up asap.
Wade are we posting all the year KS in this post ? the reason I ask is I have to do some book work today which sucks.But I do have several ledgers I've recorded every bow I've worked on or let me say 90% of them.I would be happy to post up all the year Specials I have recorded ???? bd

Doc - Yes, lets use this thread to post all the info on the Kodiak Specials. That way anyone can look here and find what they want to know about them, if it is ID or misc information.


Thought I might go back through the list and ask each owner to tell us if the bows are original or restored. May held understand some of the data a little better when we begin to analyze it.

Wade...my 59 KS with no-underlays is original.

Thanks Doc, looking forward to seeing the pics.  

This is turning out to be a great thread.  Something like this might be done on a regular basis, where all the info can be combined for specific models.  I've thought about going back thru all the post in this forum and documenting all the information on discussed models.

ok here's a 1956 Kodiak Special..R XM482 60" 36#@26"...bd   (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/56ks001.jpg)

I was thinking we should add this stuff about the indentations to restoration 101.It will take up a lot of space on our KS thread.Let me know what you guy's think.bd     (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bows003.jpg)

I've actually seen those same spots of broken fibers on almost every year and every make bow.Here's a 1968 Super Kodiak with them on both ends...bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/crack002.jpg)

another Special for our hunt..1962 lefthand..bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/crack003.jpg)

and another 1956 Kodiak Special..bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/crack004.jpg)

Doc - Yes, you should add the broken fibers photographs and explanations to your restoration 101 thread. You want to be sure to include everything on BowDoc's Restoration 101. The local Seattle community College will probably title your restoration course, BDR 101.

Guess just an explanation and photograph would be enough for this thread,

Just looked at a few bows with these broken fiber bows under some magnification...

Doc - As you say, they appear to be broken fibers near the surface. Apparently there is a mini explosion when the fiber and resin break apart that separates/expands the materials and creates a partial void, which appears to the untrained eye as a bubble on the surface.

Rather than use past phrases like "those annoying little eye sores" or "bubbled finish", we should standardize on a descriptive name for this broken fiber phenomenon.

some guy's call them pull offs.Which most are caused by glue sticking to the limbs and when seperated from the form it pulls some fibers out of the glass or can also be cause by the removel of the tape used to protect the glass from the glue.bd

bd, have you even seen those in an area other than the deep curve?

I was thinking they were caused by the glass fibers popping up or kinking while under compression on the form.  On the opposite side of the curve I've seen what looks like the glass fibers snapping and pulling away from each other while under tension on the form.  Opposite sides of the limb, opposite effects, but similar cause.

Either way, they were there when the bow was made and don't cause any harm that I can see other than cosmetic.

here's another Special for our list I say a 1958..bd  (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/spc001.jpg) (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/spc003.jpg)

and another gbay 1959 KS WC554L 64" 50# 550.00 BIN...seems a bit high priced for me.Thats not that rare of a special..bd

Doc - Recorded the auction bow...

We now have 36 recorded 1959 Kodiak Specials... Things seem to have slowed down a lot so we might as well take a look at the data we have compiled even though some of our sample length is small.

First I'd like to ask Trap if he feels that his original question was answered with the data... It was something to the effect, are the 59 specials with underlays the earlier bows or the later bows....

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck

1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck

1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays  - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68", 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade

On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.

                   (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)

Wade, Yes, I think the data reaffirms what I had been told by Bjorn and Bowdoc some time ago, that the underlays appeared on the earliest 59 Kodiak Specials.  

I would have assumed that the 62" was less common than any other length, but it appears the 70" bow has at least been less available to the few collectors represented here.  

Of course, the larger group of 62" bows could just mean they were recognized as great shooters and  therefore hoarded by the collectors here. They are sweet.

Neat data set, way to go Wade

Trap

Trap - Good observations.

I have always thought from the number and lengths of 59 KS that I have seen over the years, that the 70" was the rarest, 62" was second rarest and that the 66" was the most common. The data seems to support my thoughts that were based on the I've bows seen ...

That is if you use the serial numbers as opposed to the total number of each length that we have recorded...

Note the highest 62" serial number is VA612.. (disregarding Chuck no letter #)

The 64" goes WA, WB, WC,...

The 66" goes XA, XB, XC, XD, XE, XF

The 68" goes YA, YB...

Yes, I believe this group of collectors is hording the 62" length.

It's nice to have some real data to use for comparisons rather than simply making statements based on recollections.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Any other observations about the data???

I still believe our sample size is way too small especially given that only two 70" bows are recorded.

Great thread Wade!

Been gone for a few days and missed alot of good stuff.

I dont have a 59 for the list(Yet!), but here's the one's I do have....
 two 61's, a 63 and a 66.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8104.jpg)
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8103.jpg)

Greg - Great photographs!!! Do you realize that you are making some collectors drool and others scratch there balding scalps ??? Very interesting bows indeed.

Wonder how many of the "Dating Bear Bows by Coin Experts" have seen a 1961 Kodiak Special with NO COIN... Not sure how they date that 1961 bow...

We haven't started a list for 1961-1967 Kodiak Specials yet... but when we do, your 1963 will be at the top of the list for GRAIN & LOOKS !!!

Thanks so much for sharing a very professional photograph of some very "Special" Kodiak Specials.

this is an odd color tip underlay...bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/bowdoc/udl002.jpg)

Doc - Is that the tip underlay that you just put on?

Yes one side of the string groove was cracked and raised.So I glued the original glass back down and then added the red underlays to make sure.Thats red canvas underlay which is pretty flexable its the same material used in the middle laminations on black widow bows.I was going to add the pic to res.101.bd

Rich
my '58 is YG895 62" @ 49#

Rich - These are the five 1958 KS that I have kept for shooting and display...

Kodiak Specials
1958 62", 44# - YC815
1958 64", 55# - YC124
1958 66", 49# - YC345
1958 68", 45# - YC753
1958 70", 54# - YE921

I believe I still have one more 62", 55# but can not find it right now as it was never in the display, just in with the extras. If I find it, will let you know.

It is obvious the 1958 KS letter sequence order is much different than the more straight forward sequence used in 1959.

I have never attempted to track the 1958 KS numbering to be able to give you an order that could be followed 90%+ of the time like the 1959 KS.

If anyone wants to post their 1958 Kodiak Special Serial numbers, I will add them to this list by editing the post so we can try to make sense of them...

I'd love to help on this one....but....I dont have one   :(  

Yet  :bigsmyl:  

Trap

Bowbent - Nice 1955 and 1956 Kodiak Specials. Don't think we want to start a serial number recording session just yet on those years, but if you leave the photographs posted, we can refer back to them and get them recorded if we continue on and record the 55/56 serial numbers.

Also want to mention your photographs are a little oversize for what TradGang permits. 640 is the max width, unless it has changed recently. I'd hate to see one of the moderators remove your post.

OK Trap - I mentioned in my post that I can not find a 62", 55# right now that has been floating around here for quite a while... and a couple of hours later, you suddenly post that you want one...

Or are you just looking for any 1958?

Tonight in the boneyard (the garage racks of extra bows) I did find a couple of 66" 1957 KS, 34# & 46# both looks straight.

As I am sure you know the 1957 and 1958 were built on the same form, the difference being the laminations in the riser. Blindfolded I'm not sure anyone would know the difference shooting bows from the two different years.

If you are interested in either or both, you know I will cheat you right... oops, I meant, treat you right...

Kodiak Specials
1958 62", 47# - YG315
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390
1958 66", 57# - YF995
1958 68", 58# - YE421
1958 70",  player to be named at a later date....

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/minnesota080.jpg)

Chuck, Thanks for posting the  serial numbers. I especially liked your concept on the 70", player to be named at a later date....

Your concept might be better stated as...

"Draft pick to be selected in later round"

Hey, it looks like you are in need of some replacement 1958 KS strike plates too. Trap is sending me a sample for some bows. Will let you know how they look. Trap - the pressure is on you now...

LOL Wade, Actually I hadnt given the 58 Kodiak Special much thought.  I was just funnin around.  

The 57 and 58 KSs are on the list of things to watch down the road but I have some other gaps to fill first.  

Thanks for the offer though, Trap

Trap - With your Kodiaks you have plenty of better shooting bows than the 66" 1957 KS.

What other gaps are you looking to fill first?

Personally, I hope Chuck puts that 64" Rosewood Sight Window up for his next monthly give away, and that I win it!

Great question Wade, I'm not sure where to go from here.  So many great bows out there.  

I've only collected '54 through '62 Kodiaks.  I've had several 62" Grizzlies but have sold most of them off or traded them to add Kodiaks.  

I considered the static Kodiaks and have also considered the 63 through 66 Kodiaks.  

The 59 and 60 Kodiak Specials are attractive.  

I may just try to add "special" bows that fit in with the group of bows I currently have.  

I'm actually quite satisfied with the bows I have which is more than I can shoot.  I'm starting to appreciate the other Bear Archery collectibles such as  back quivers, arrows, photographs etc.

If Chuck puts the 64" RW up for a give away, I hope you win it.  You just never know. Is that a gap you are trying to fill?  

About those plates, I'm trying to locate some leather that thin. . I'll find it. Just takes time.  

Sorry for the Hijack, you asked so I just kinda rambled.

Trap

Trap - I'm just giving Chuck a hard time about giving away a rare bow that is in great shape. Hey, I tried offering him money (my standard offer) right after he got the 64" RW and that never worked.

Just combined Chuck's 1958 KS Serial numbers in with the ones I posted earlier.  You can see the scrambled mess by lengths, when compared to the order by length for most 1959 KS...

I'm sure if more add more to this now very short list, the order will become even more scrambled...

Kodiak Specials

1958 62", 44# - YC815 – Wade
1958 62", 47# - YG315 – Chuck

1958 64", 55# - YC124 – Wade
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390 – Chuck

1958 66", 49# - YC345 – Wade
1958 66", 57# - YF995 – Chuck

1958 68", 45# - YC753 – Wade
1958 68", 58# - YE421 – Chuck

1958 70", 54# - YE921 – Wade

Here is another '58 for the list -

64" 45# YG447

  (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/rltjlt/001.jpg)

Nice addition to your 58 collection Bob  :thumbsup:  

Trap

New data from the auction site.

59 Kodiak Special
YA270
68"
42#
with underlays

59 Kodiak Special LH
WC771
64"
55#
underlays ????

Trap

Mine is a 1956 Kodiak Special
         2554
         64"
         50#
        Kurt

man they sold a lot of Specials huh ? where the hell did Wade get off to ???????? bd

He slackin  :bigsmyl:  

Trap

Doc & Trap - Boy, I am doing anything but slackin. Up to my ears here for a couple more weeks while some of my family is on vacation. Also trying to get back to finishing up a partially completed project, updating a book that was printed 5 years ago. When things get back to normal or I take a break, will get these Special lists updated. Will try to check in everyday and straight you two out when you need it...

Yes Sir   :p  

Did you hear that?  Straighten Up Doc!!!!!

Trap

Trap I was thinking he was laying on the beach somewhere soaken up the sun and not even thinking about us.I feel better now...bd

Yeah, I'm sure we're first and foremost in his thoughts  ;)  

Trap

add my '56KS to the list FO17631 64" 51#

joe

OK Trap & Doc

Here is your updated list of 1958 and 1959 Kodiak Specials...

We haven't started a list for 1955 to 1957 yet..

1959 Kodiak Specials...

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 62", 45# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays – Chuck

1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays – BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB069 - underlays – Auction 5-02-2009
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 55# - WC771 - underlays???? Auction
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no underlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck


1959 68", 42# - YA270 - underlays - Auction
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays  - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68", 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 70", 42# - ZA003 - underlays – Auction 3-30-2009 LH
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed – Wade

On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.

                      (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)


1958 Kodiak Special Serial Numbers .....

1958 62", 40# - YA214 – Auction 4-15-2009
1958 62", 44# - YC815 – Wade
1958 62", 47# - YG315 – Chuck
1958 62", 49# - YG895- Brad
1958 62", 47# - 4E339 – Wade - Serial Number was re-written on top of camo paint, that may be a mistake (YE339 seems more logical) original number may still be under paint...

1958 64", 55# - YC124 – Wade
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390 – Chuck
1958 64", 45# - YG447 – Bob

1958 66", 49# - YC345 – Wade
1958 66", 57# - YF995 – Chuck

1958 68", 45# - YC753 – Wade
1958 68", 58# - YE421 – Chuck

1958 70", 54# - YE921 – Wade

Oops here's another one.

1959 66", 48# XD119 - no underlays - Trap

Thanks Wade, Trap

One more

1958 62", 49#- YG895- Brad

I bet that's a great shooting bow Brad.

Trap

It really is, I like it better than the '58 60"
Kodiak. I put one of your rests on. That must be
the difference

Yeah, that's it, LOL, those 62" Bears are Special

Trap

My mistake on not looking further down the page. Just got this bow so I will put this post in its proper place:
(//%5Burl=http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282485.JPG%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://images.imagelinky.com/1240282485.JPG)[/url] [/IMG]
(//%5Burl=http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282532.JPG%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://images.imagelinky.com/1240282532.JPG)[/url] [/IMG]
Hope this helps in the info compiling. This bow is wrong handed for me so not sure how long it will be staying at my house.

here is another YF155 64" 44# 1958 KS no underlays
joe

Here's a couple more to add Wade no underlays on either...
WD 438 64" 50#
VA 605 62" 40# L.

59, LH, 66", 40#, XE436A, no underlays.

-Joe-

Hey guys,

Just traded for a 64" 51# 59 KS myself today. The bow is signed in the sight window by Glenn St. Charles and was refinished by Joe St. Charles. Looking forword to getting this bow.

JL

Hey JL,

 Did you find this on the Wall? If so I was looking at that bow myself but I have a new self imposed rule when I think I want another bow I have to wait a few days before I buy it. Though I lose out on some bows I haven't been going through as much money which I could use for other things like I don't know... food. Let us know what she looks/shoots like.

I found it here on Tradgang. I have a self imposed rule also. I can only buy one bow a year so I traded for this bow. I always thought the KS was a great looking bow and have desired one for some time. Think I'm going to need another Trap feather rest for her. What's the general consensus on the shootability of these vintage KS's?

Thanks!

Just picked up this mint 59 Kodiak Special 64" 47# in left hand, looks to have been a display bow.
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820952.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820953.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820955.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820954.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820956.jpg)

Wade/Bowdoc- In one of your previous posts I see -

1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc

I now own this bow!! How did you guys know about it?

Bill - Doc originally posted the specs on your bow.

Roy - I see that your 59 KS has 3 holes in the sight window. don't know if you realize it or not, but the bow was originally used as a dealer display bow with one arrow attached to each of the three holes.

This list should include all the 1959 Kodiak Special data submitted to this date...

1959 Kodiak Specials... June 1, 2009 Updated List

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - Bill
1959 62", 45# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 51# - VA575 - no underlays - Norman
1959 62", 40# - VA605L - no underlays - Chris
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck

1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB069 - underlays - Auction 5-02-2009
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 - no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC124 - no underlays - Roy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays - Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 55# - WC771 - underlays???? Auction
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Chris
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 51# - ?????? - underlays ?? - JL

1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no underlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE436A - no underlays - Joe - LH
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck

1959 68", 42# - YA270 - underlays - Auction
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68", 32# - YB499A - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 70", 42# - ZA003 - underlays - Auction 3-30-2009 - LH
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade

On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.

Wade,
I have a RH 1959 68" Kod Special
sn YA 715
39#
no underlays
I have another at home, I will bring in the specs tomorrow on that one.  It is a LH 64"
Lamont

gee's I lost my spot with the 62" 59#er now Bill bow ? and to top that off another tradgang member has the 64" 52#er now too.Damn it I gotta quit sleeping at night and get back to trading buying selling.I hate having my name taken off any list.Yes even that list.........bowdoc

450, thats a beautiful 59'er.  If anyone has any leads or has just lost their sense and wants to let go of one of the 59 or 60 lefties, I'm your man.  Bhill

Brent, Between us there must be 75% of all lefty "collectors" looking for the same bows!

Doc - Your name will never be taken off my list... However, you may not always be at the top... LOL

Lamont - With all our lefty shooters around now, tomorrow when you open up the shop, there may be two or three of them waiting at your shop door to make you an offer for that LH 64" 59 KS, especially if it is a heavy weight.

How far is it from Maryland to Minnesota????

OK, this shows how good my memory is.
I have a LH '59 Kod Spedial, 66", 45#, sn 4R21 and no underlays.  I always remembered it as a 64".  I have been shooting LH for 15 years now so not much chance until I can't shoot. Lamont

Hmmmmm I dont have a 68" 59 KS,  Is that one for sale Lamont?  

Trap

Trap, a local fellow has spoken for it already. Lamont

story of my life  ;)  

Trap

Removed photograph 6-9-09, refer to first page of this thread.

Pictures worth way more than a thousand words, Wade.

I could not figure out what "shelf in front of caps" meant for the 1963 version. The picture makes it obvious.

And by the way thank you for posting the pic at the end since that is where I have been checking the thread.

I have a bow on the way that I bought a while back on **** which is probably a 63, although it could be a 64 or 65 from the pics as well. I am hoping to have it in my hot little hands later today as I am a teacher and school is out for the summer. If not I am going to have to wait around until Monday or later since I cannot "bear" the idea of not having the bow to shoot this summer.

Just a quick question on the 63 riser; is the one in the pic light coloured bubinga or zebrawood?

Thanks so much for taking the time to do what you do so well. As soon as I can I will send you the info on my bow and pics.

Oops, and you guys taught me this, it cannot be a 65 because that is the year they started the serial number with a 5 right?

Dave - Seems there are exceptions to any rule made about cosmetic features such as serial numbers, coins, tip overlays, etc.

The form the bow was built on really determines the year, not an incorrect number an employee wrote on a riser for one of a hundred or more reasons, e.g., first or last day on the job, filling in for someone who was sick, mad at the boss, hung over, in a hurry, lost a contact, goofing off, etc.

The 63 in the photo has Brazilian Rosewood Caps and Bubinga Riser.

I just hit the post office a while ago and no bow, so I am going to be here until at least Monday looking for it. No telling how long it will take Canada Customs to process it. A hat that I got at the same time was shipped the same day and I got the hat on Tuesday.

I now have a pic from the **** listing loaded in Photobucket and I am trying to sort out how to attach it. One thing that it shows is that the coin is aluminum which is, as you say, not the "conventional" coin for a 63.

One of the reasons we buy these old bows is that they, like us, are a throwback to an earlier and less complicated time. Guess we should just be happy that they are available to us. Oh, and that we can post pictures of them for all to see!

Lets give this a try.

And again.
 (http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/th_BS7cdBgB2kKGrHgoH-EEEjlLlyg1NBKFuCE.jpg) (http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/?action=view¤t=BS7cdBgB2kKGrHgoH-EEEjlLlyg1NBKFuCE.jpg)

The serial number on the bow is 248A110, it is the 66 inch model and 42# draw weight, which hopefully at my roughly 30 inch draw length will give me about 45 or 46 pounds.

Unfortunately I am on the move next week so it may be September before I can get some more pics taken and sent. Fortunately I am headed to the Lake Windermere area in southeastern British Columbia which has a rod and gun club that includes archery. I am hoping there are at least a few traditional shooters there. If not then I will simply have to re-educate them!

Dave - I looked at your photograph in photobucket, which is much larger and clearer then shown on this thread. Your bow is a 1963 for sure and the riser is bubinga. From the coin side it looks like a nice clean bow. Yes, you should get 45 or 46# with a 30" draw length.

Thank you, Wade, for taking the time to check things out a little further and confirm what we kind of already knew.

Got to thank Joe St. Charles for getting me interested in buying a bow from the Sixties. Or I guess I should say my second bow from the Sixties since I am pretty sure my Ben Pearson Junior Jet came from the era as well.

Now since I seem to have become a 66 inch bow collector I think maybe my next bow ought to be a 1966 bow as well. I kinda like the Polar from that year better than the KS and I think it ought to be a left hander at about 36 to 38 pounds nominal.

The bow arrived in the mail today.

Two things are immediately obvious, the coin really is brass colored as would be expected for 1963 and the serial number is actually 24BA110, not 248A110.

It is not as clean as I would have hoped with quite a few small character marks in various places. Still the grain in the bubinga is rather nice and the top rosewood cap has some very pretty grain. There are some characteristic vertical lines at both the top and bottom belly fades, but only one small bit where a nail catches.

For now I will just shoot it the way it is and then maybe one day take a serious look at stripping the finish, patching the dings and refinishing it.

Once again, Wade, thanks for your help and I will post some more pics as soon as I have the technology readily available.

Wish I could tell you what it shoots like, but for now everything I need to shoot it is either packed or already moved. I do like the feel of the grip, which I would guess is what Bear refers to as a pistol grip style. Feels quite a bit like the grip on my DH Ventura.

Picked up a 1959 Kodiak Special..silver coin
70" 50#  serial #5VX26

QuoteOriginally posted by 450 marlin:
Picked up a 1959 Kodiak Special..silver coin
70" 50#  serial #5VX26

Nice way to celebrate the middle of its 50 th year.
LH or RH?

Roy, based on the serial numbers on the other 59 Specials listed, you may have a 60.  

When I look at the pictures in your other thread, it appears that the belly of the sight window is wood instead of glass, which would make it a 59.  

Maybe a closeup of the riser's belly would define whether it's a 59 or 60.

Trap

`

A few more pictures Serial #5VX26 Silver Coin
22 stamp (maybe a carry over to 1960)

(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389799.jpg)

(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389803.jpg)

(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389800.jpg)

I bet that's it.  Cool

Looks to be in great shape.

Trap

Can this thread be given a sticky and be posted at the top of the forum?  Great thread

Finally -

It only took 4 months and 5 days to get this photograph of these

1961 - 1967 Kodiak Specials - all 66"

Just loaded this photograph on the first page of this thread so the most important information is on first page.

 (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS61-67C.jpg)

Wade, any thoughts on the 70" 50# KS that Roy posted pics of above?

Nontypical serial number for a 59 KS, but no glass on the sight window belly which would make it a 59 KS, unlike the 60 KS which had glass on the belly of the sight window.

Trap

Trap - Roy's 70" KS is 1959...

First and foremost is the frame or form a bow is built on.. Roy's bow is built on a 1959 form...

It has the 1959 riser configuration and the 1959 narrow grip...

Those things mentinoed above are permanent and not cosmetic.

Cosmetic features, such as serial numbers and coins can be anything, especially if the bow is made during the period when one year's model is transitioning to the next years model.

As I have said many times, anything could have been written on any bow by anyone at any point in time... There are dozens of reasons that a serial number might not fall in line with other 1959s... mismarked on purpose or by accident, refinished, not finished until later, special order, bow set back and found later, then finished with different number, and the list goes on and on. A bow like the 1959 KS with the flaired inset, could have been started and routed for the inset, then much later could have been completed.

If you can dream up a crazy reason for a mis-marked bow, it probably really happened.

The bows that do not fall in line with the other serial numbers, only prove the point that some bows were marked differently and all do not fall in line, which is the legitimate reason not to place much store in serial numbers for dating bows.

Truth is stranger than fiction. Odd things that happen in a factory environment are stranger than everyday life.

Talk with a retiree who worked in the same "built from scratch" manufacturing factory their entire life. They will tell you stories you never dreamed could be real about items that made it out the door as legitimate products and lunch box specials that went out the back door, or worst yet, stuff that was sold as scrap but purchased by employees who knew the products were really good.

Then talk with customer service or or the technical support personal who are out in the field and see the products that do no comply with with specifications and return those products to the factory and exchange them.

Thanks Wade,  

The bow fits really nicely on the rack with my other 59 Kodiak Specials.  One to go.  A 68 incher will complete the set for me.  

Then maybe I can work on all those 59 Kodiak variations  ;)  

Trap

Trap,

If you are going to put together one complete year of Kodiak Specials, 1959 would be my first choice too.

You are starting to make me feel sorry for you because you don't have a 68" Kodiak Special and I have two. I would send you one, but the risers of these two bows have different woods, so would hate to sell either bow.

When you get to the point that you feel you are desperate, let me know. I will loan you the 68" with golden rosewood slabs until you can find a 68".

Keep me posted on the vitals reading on your "desperate" meter.

Whats the chance there is a "61" in zebrawood out there looking for a new home.

 I run a shelter for wayward, neglected or unwanted zebrawood riser bows and there is a few openings for those most in need.

 Right now I have a Grizz, Tigercat, Bearcat, Cub and a Littlebear in zebrawood and would like to get a model of all the bears offered in zebrawood.
                         
Thanx, Shep

Shep,

These are some extra bows, let me know if you are looking for zebrawood bows that need refinish work. The 61 KS at the far left of the photo is 32#, 66" and is a candidate for a new home...

 (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/BOWS.jpg)

Wade, what's the story on that upside down early 59 in the pic above?  Refinnish candidate?  Wall hanger?  

Trap

Trap,

The upside down 59 story, 60", 55#, purpleheart SW, crack in lamination at lower limb right at the fadeout and into glass on back. Was supposedly "repaired" by someone. Have strung it and drawn it, but I don't trust it. If used as a shooter, it would probably become a basket of splinters in short order.

Just another one of my many questionable bow investments that turned out to be less than what it was thought to be when acquired.

:(  That blows.....or would  :(  

Trap

If someone gets into the 59  Kodiak re-limb-ing business, I will have some work for them...

Wade...as Glenn would say about the 59...."I'll give you 5 bucks for this "...Hink..  :p

And just like my standard reply to Glenn's $5 offers, my reply is ...

"I'll give you $10 for yours".

Wade
Mike Macready of Maddog Archery is redoing a KS  for Ray Roan.
He does nice work.
      Kurt

Wade dont know if this thread still has interest but, I picked up one with nice grain and some extra thin black laminations that I dont see on my other Kodiak Specials and underlays.      XA523 66" #55

Hoof - Just added your  XA523 66" #55 to the list on the first page.

By extra thin black laminations, to you mean on the riser and tip overlays. That tapered shape can vary a lot giving the impression of a different thickness. Actual thickness could be different too.

Can you post a photograph of them?

I took a few pics I'm sure you will spot it. Of the few Specials that I have, this one is the lightest color phase of the group, and the highest poundage bow of the group. The tips and underlays look pretty standard.

 (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59KS66.jpg)

Hoof - The riser slabs are golden rosewood. There was thread that Doc started a few months ago and a few of us posted 59 KS with this wood.

On a 59 KS, have never seen the black accent stripe before. It appears to have an irregular width, like paint, on your far left photograph, enlarged below. It may be the lighting and irregular surface on the wood. Has the bow been refinished? The coin doesn't look like it has 50 years of patina. Can you post photographs of the end of the riser where the black line fades into the limb laminations, both sides of the top and bottom fade outs?

 (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/0-PAINT.jpg)

Actually Wade the bow hasnt been refinished yet, but the coin I hit with some of the Eagle One I mentioned in an earlier post. The bow is far from perfect and needs a face lift IMO.
Yes the patina was there and plenty dark too...If the tips had been in better shape I would have left the coin alone. There was something on the coin and needed to go. The limbs have some speckles from overspray of some kind and the tips are in need of repair also. But it is another beautiful piece waiting to be brought back to life. It has got some nice grain... I will get the pics you requested posted up tomorrow evening after I get home from the relentless grind of work. Talk to you tomorrow... Hoof

For unusual features like that, its a shame to refinish the bow. That is always a tough decision.

Wade I hear you on the refinishing,but both tips are seperated and someone then tried to glue them back on and looks really bad...If the tips were tight I would have never even touched the coin,Other than that its not too bad a shape. From left to right the upper coin side, lower coin side,upper shelf side,lower shelf side.I hope these help.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/fades.jpg)

Hoof - Thanks for posting the photographs of the fade outs. Certainly doesn't look like anyone painted those black lines! Seems to be never ending all the little things that varied on some Bear bows. Yes, it is a shame about the loose tips on many 1959s. That marcarta just doesn't hold up like glass. Best to get them replaced so they will hold up especially at 55#. You will have to post photographs after it is refinished. The black accent may stand out more against the refinished maple laminations. Hopefully the refinisher will be able to determine what the black accents are, or have you figured out already?

Heck Wade I havent a clue on the black accent, If you have any idea's I'm all ears. I will post some pics when it's reworked. I just notice that it was a little different than I've seen so far... Just a shame it wasnt cared for more in the past.

Chris, Super nice example of a KS. I have a 1955 model and love the way it handles and shoots. In my very limited exposure I haven't seen one like yours. Are you going to tackle the refinish yourself?

Wade, Did Bear employees have "free rein" to do these type of things? Was it a what "feels right" or like some of the painted limbs done for some reason. Just curious.

Thanks John

John - Like all factories, Bear was in business to make money so did things like paint glass, and use odd lots of wood for some bows or parts of bows.

As collectors we have a need to put everything in its own little category, but the truth of the matter is a lot of exceptions were made from the norm. Some on purpose and some by rouge employees to make something different to sneek out the back door and others as just plain goof ups.  

If Bear had left over coins of one type and the type of coined changed the next year, they did not throw the old coins away, they were all used. Same with wood and glass. They found a way to use it.

Anyone who had worked around a factory will tell you that when the boss is not looking over their shoulder, some employees do a lot of things that are not sanctioned by the company.

Wade - The coin appears brass rather than copper,when I polished it I noticed it didnt have the same appearance as the other Copper coins I have.It has to be copper though even though it has a shiney gold look to it,which really goes well with the Golden Rosewood and lighter tones. But as youve have shown us that coin dont really tell a thing about the bow, other than many "non-standard" things happened at the factory. Almost forgot I have a 59' WD438, 64",#50 no underlays. Which falls in line with the current trend on your list.

are you still adding to the list of 59s?  if you are, I have a couple i can add
66" 42# XF074 no underlay
64" 45# WB998 no underlays

minnesota_hunter - Thanks for posting the information on your two Kodiak Specials. I just edited the list on the first page.

Here's   a very  early Kodiak Special  that doesn't quite seem to fit the established year/model pattern.  

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209009.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209010.jpg)

It has the same brown glass on both the back and the belly, and the serial number is a bit odd, making me wonder if it wasn't some sort of special  order bow.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209033.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209034.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209002.jpg)

The limb tips do seem to be very well done.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209032.jpg)

I'm guessing 1955 or 1956, although the limb glass color is throwing me. What do you guys think? What is this bow? (While not in great shape, this bow is available for trade or sale.)

With the sight window,silkscreens and solid accent stripe as clues, I'm thinking 1956.Hard to tell from the pic lighting, is the glass not normal brown and gray?
wouldnt any deviation from 28" draw be a special order bow also?

The glass is the exact same brown glass on the back and the belly of the limbs. No gray glass whatsoever. Thus the mystery.

Bill -

At first I thought it was a 56 when I sent you PM. But having looked at the bow again, I see that it was actually built on a 1957 Kodiak Special form with a much longer riser.

Can you measure the bow to determine its exact length?

Wade,

Sure, I can take measurements this evening and report back in the morning. What exact measurements would you like? Any additional photos?

Bill

Here is another to add to the list.
59 KS 64" 32# WA728 underlays

Mike

Bill -

The tip to tip measurement is probably the fastest way to determine what you might have.

Kodiak Special tip to tip lengths measured in a straight line...

1956, 60" just under 56"
1957, 62" just under 60"

This will help us determine if the bow may have been mis-marked.

A full length photograph will tell us what form the bow was built on. My guess is it was made on a form more like the 1957 Kodiak Special.

Bill -

The bottom bow is a 60" 1956 Kodiak Special, with continuously arcing limbs.

Top three are all 62" 1957 Kodiak Specials, three sight window variations. Top one is standard production model. All three have straight limbs with recurved ends.

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/56-57-KS.jpg)

Wade, please add my 70 incher

Serial Number 5VX26 70" 50# No tip overlays

Trap

Wade,

Your latest photo is a big help in clarifying the differences between the 1956 and 1957 standard models. The limb patterns and riser lengths are dramatically different between the two years.

I'll measure and photograph my sample this evening and post the results in the morning. My recollection and feeling is that my bow is more like the 1957 models you've shown. We'll see.  

Bill

Bill,

Yes, there is a dramatic difference between the 60" 1956 and the 62" 1957 shown above. However, the 1956 in 64" and 68" are much closer to the limb design of the 1957.

In reality the 60" 1956 Kodiak Special became the 60" 1957 Kodiak by changing the the back to brown glass, the riser to solid maple and the tip overlays.

Mike - Added your 64" 1959 KS to the list.

Trap - Added your 70" 1959 KS to the list. How about you 66", did I miss getting it on the list? Still looking for a 68"? See that last one at auction sneaked by you, (or should that be "streaked" by you)?

More like "streaked".  I'm patient.

Yeah I guess my 66" is missing from the list.

Serial# XD119  66" 48# no overlays

Thanks for compiling the list, Cool stuff.

Trap

Wade,

Last evening I measured six different Bear bows from tip to tip, including the Kodiak Special in question, and the results were as follows.

1954 Kodiak II (walnut) marked 60" and 49# ----- 55 ½ inches
1955 Kodiak marked 60" and 47# ----- 55 ½ inches
1956 Kodiak marked 60" and 48# ----- 56 ¼ inches
1957 Kodiak marked 60" and 48# ----- 56 3/8 inches
1958 Kodiak marked 60" and 49# ----- 56 3/8 inches

Kodiak Special marked 60" and 25# @ 25 inches ----- 57 1/8 inches

All measurements were made in this manner:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A052.jpg)

I also photographed five of the MAPLE-risered bows full length to show their limb configuration. The bows are (from top to bottom, and beginning below the 1964 Kodiak in the top photo) a 1955 Kodiak, a 1956 Kodiak, a 1957 Kodiak, a 1958 Kodiak and the bottom bow is the Kodiak Special we've been discussing.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A004.jpg)


 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A006.jpg)


Here then is a close-up of the top limbs:

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A021.jpg)

And also a close-up of the riser sections.


 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A013.jpg)


Given all that, and the information in my previous posts (brown glass on both the back and the belly of the bow, etc.), what do you now make of this particular Kodiak Special?


Bill Krenz
Colorado

No AMO standard until about june of 1968.bd

Well I had a bitter sweet vacation.  Made it home for my grandfathers estate sale.  Almost 80 years of trapping, hunting, and family memories sold at rock bottom prices.  Fortunately I came away with one of his bows that the family decided to auction.

56 Kodiak Special 64" RH, grey back glass, and brown on the belly. Leather handle, XJ812.

Put it up beside my 68" 56 KS and noticed two distinct differences, one being that the 64 didn't have the accessory insert on the offside handle area.  The second is that my 68" has the Kodiak Special water transfer on the belly of the top limb and not the back of the limb like the 64".  The 68" bow has a National Field Archers Association water transfer where the Kodiak Special would be.  Did Bear produce bows specifically for NFAA that they would have modified the markings locations to accomodate the organizational markings, or is this common with the 68" 56's?


(L)68" (R)64"
 (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3892.jpg)

 (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3893.jpg)

 (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3894.jpg)

 (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3895.jpg)

Wades response to the mismarking of the limbs. (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=003011)

Bill -

I do NOT believe the bow is mis-marked.

I would say that the 60" Kodiak Special is just that, a 60" Kodiak Special that was made with the straight limbs. Perhaps late in 1956 when they were working on the forms for the 1957 Kodiak Special, they made this bow.

In 1956 Specials were advertised in the catalog in 60", 64" and 68" lengths.

In 1957 Specials were advertised in the catalog in 62", 64", 66" and 70" lengths, but not 60" or 68".

Although the 68" was not advertised, it was made. I got one from Bjorn a few years ago and since have seen two others.

My guess is that Bear also made at least a limited number of 60" Specials like yours, as they made 60" Specials the two previous years in 1955 and 1956.

Your 60" Special has the multi-layered "I" beam that was used in 1955 and 1956 Kodiak Specials. It has from 5 to 8 thin laminations in the center of the "I" beam. I have a few very early 1957 Kodiak Specials that also have that 1955-56 multi-layered "I" Beam.

Logically, your 60" Kodiak Special fits right into the scheme of things with its multi-layered "I" beam, 60" length, straight limb design of the 1957 form, and helps tell the story of the evolution of the Kodiak Specials.

I would call your bow, a 60" 1957 Kodiak Special with a multi-layered "I" beam and brown glass.

Do you want me to just send you a blank check for the bow          ;)          Or do you have a trade in mind?

Glad you got a "Big Mojo" bow Tim

For me my loss was great grandpa's matched set of BP dueling pistols, sold by the family In-laws or should I say out-laws?

Last night I saw one of my old 1959 Kodiak Specials, a real looker. No camera with me...

Wrote down the number, boy it is really an odd number ...

1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R, no underlays,

Just added her to the list and notice it has nearly the same sequence as Chuck's 62"...

Here's yet another classic Kodiak Special to add to the list. This one is a 1962 Kodiak Special with a striking Brazilian Rosewood riser.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A048.jpg)

The serial number is 26AJ201 and the specifications are 66" and 48#. This is a bow I just recently picked up in trade and its already proven to be a fine shooter. Those long 66-inch limbs draw smooth as silk and shoot surprisingly fast.

The soft green Bearglass facing and backing compliment the tropical hardwood riser.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A051.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A046.jpg)


Gosh it's fun to find and shoot these early target bows!

Bill Krenz
Colorado

Bill - Nice 1962 Kodiak Special. Haven't recorded any serial numbers except for the 1959 Kodiak Specials...

Just added these three to the 1959 List

1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-09

Wade- correct the listing for my 62 incher, VA228 does have underlays, sorry for the error. The 60" brown glass '57 Kodiak Special is a rare bow, only one I have ever seen or heard of. That may be a one of a kind example there, very collectible.

Chuck - Made the correction for your 62", VA228 with underlays.

That 60" straight limb Special is the only one I have heard of, but been at it long enough not be be surprised to see more turn up. We have seen that happen time and again in the past. First one turns up, then a second, then more.

Continuing to discover and learn new things keeps collecting interesting.  

The unknown and unlocking the mysteries are part of what makes collecting these old bows so much fun.

Bill,

The 60" 1956/57 Kodiak Special arrived an hour ago. What a little sweetheart. Cleaned her up a bit, but need some renovation. Made on a much smaller riser than the 62" 1957 Kodiak Specials.

Shown below with three other Kodiak Specials...

Top to Bottom
62" 1956/1957 Transition Bow
62" 1956/1957 Transition Bow
60" 1956/1957 Different Frame
60" 1956 Standard Bow


 (http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/56-SP-1.jpg)

1961 KS 66" 40# STAR stamped with no serial number
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379769.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379766.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379770.jpg)

Here's one to add Wade
 
59 KS YC039 68" 39# No underlays
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/003.jpg)

Trap

Roy - That 61 KS really has nicely contrasting grain, tight on the shelf side and open on the coin side.

Trap - Nice 68" 1959 KS. The burled grain in the sight window is super, about as nice as I've ever seen. Added it to the list of 59s on the first page.

ttt

It is time to take this thread back to the top for another run.

DDave

Photobucket is working again so I will add a couple of pics.

The bow has been reassigned to whitetail duty.

DDave (http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/019.jpg)  (http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/th_006-1.jpg) (http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/?action=view¤t=006-1.jpg)

QuoteOriginally posted by sticknstring+:
Great thread Wade!

Been gone for a few days and missed alot of good stuff.

I dont have a 59 for the list(Yet!), but here's the one's I do have....
 two 61's, a 63 and a 66.
 (http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8104.jpg)
 (http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8103.jpg)

I notice that your 63 has micarta on the upper end of the riser. Mine only has it below the shelf.

I have to say that I am not a great fan of micarta accents. Black and white just do not belong on a bow that is essentially varying shades of brown and red brown.

My 64 Polar has green and white overlays and that is a little more reasonable.

DDave

Man,they look great.

My KS is just too nice a bow to not get restored. Not the greatest bubinga grain, but interesting nevertheless.  The upper rosewood cap is very nice. I have an old friend who is a bowyer here in Alberta and I am going to give him this bow to touch up after it has finished hunting. Even if it does not shoot a whitetail before the end of the season it has earned a facelift just by having survived for 47 years. The limbs are as straight as the day they left the factory.

DDave

In retrospect the only thing I am gonna do with these bows is figure out some way to seal the "stress lines" so that no moisture can penetrate to the core.

I carry the scars,wrinkles,cracks,dents, and discolourations of my 59 years and there is no reason these oldies should not as well.

DDave

I'm not sure if this is the place to add a 59 KS or not? I have a left hand XE904  66" 40# no underlays.

Jack -

I updated the Kodiak Special Thread with your bow...

Thanks for letting us know about it.

Thanks Wade, it doesn't have the underlays though so you might want to note that on the list.


Jack

Jack -

I just noted no underlays.

Thanks for the information.

Anyone else have a 1959 Kodiak Special they want to list on the first page of this thread.... ???

I picked up a 70" KS I can add.
It is  40 @ 29   with underlays
ZA067

Minnesota hunter -

Just added your KS to the list. Thanks for posting the information.

Wade,

I am the proud owner of a wonderful '59 KS.

serial # XB263; 48#; 66"; right handed

Black underlays.  Has not been re-finished.  Yellowing on the limbs but is really in great shape so am going to leave it as is.

Wade, I have a LH '59 KS 64" 47# Serial# WC124

(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS4.jpg)


(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS3.jpg)


(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS1.jpg)

Here are a couple to add:YB393 68"50#,YB392 68"50#

Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list  1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?

I also have a '59 KS, Serial # WA883,64", 45#@26, with underlays. Have shot it some but it needs some TLC to bring it back to its glory days.

Here's a rare bow to add to the mix:
1960 Kodiak Special 62", 40# ... only one I have ever seen. It is the top bow on the rack.

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/bowz001.jpg)

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/bowz005.jpg)

Rick -

Nice find. You have a Kodiak Deluxe, which is exactly what the partial decal shows...

This link will also show that your serial number is consistent with the other 1960 60" Kodiak Deluxe serial numbers....

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002910

Thanks Wade,I just had a tradganger point that out to me.

1959 Kodiak Special LH WB083 64" 50#

Forgot to add with underlays.

Norm -

Thanks.

Just added 1959 Kodiak Special LH WB083 64" 50# with underlays

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list  1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?

Here is another '59 KS to add to the list.  I purchased this recently from another TG member.  As you can see in the second photo, it is marked UB 448 64" 45# and has the underlays.  It looks good with the new Trap feather rest.

The serial number seems suspect as I haven't seen any others that started with a "U" listed here.  It could be that the riser was refinished at some point and the original "V" or "W" was remarked improperly.

(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/DSC01698-Copy.jpg)

(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/004-Copy.jpg)

(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/DSC01695-Copy.jpg)

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list  1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?

[/b][/QUOTE

Hoof - Just added your VA611L to the serial number list on page one of this thread. Thanks for posting it.

Is the bow in original condition with the original serial number marked on it?

It is cool to finally see two consecutive serial numbers on the list...

Stinger -

Thanks for posting your 59 KS marked UB 448 64" 45# and has the underlays.

The bow looks to be refinished. Do you know who did the refinish?

I ask because the serial number is out of sequence for 64" 1959 Kodiak Specials and likely the original numbers were not put back on the bow when it was refinished.

I have one such incorrectly marked 1959 Kodiak Special that is refinished. The finish was in such poor condition, actually it was gone, that it did not have any numbers on it before it was refinished. Then  when refinished, it was marked at random, with numbers are that not typical to 1959 Kodiak Specials.

You just never know about the markings on refinished bows.

Wade,  I was pretty sure that the number had been transcribed wrong when it was refinished.  I'm guessing the original first letter was a "W".  If that had been partially rubbed off over time, I could see where someone would think it might be a U.  If you look close you can see the tail of the U on the right side.  If the original had been a V, I don't think the refinsher would have done that.  

I bought the bow from HootieC.  He said a guy named Rick did the refinish.  I sent an email to determine who 'Rick' is.  Hootie said the only thing that was done was it was sanded, new decals,tips are the same.  He hunted with it and just wanted it cleaned up; it had 2 small stress lines in it, but you cant hardly see much of anything now.  The bow wasn't beat up or anything when he had it refinshed,just showing its age.

Wade as far as I can tell it's all original condition, it's in decent shape with a few scratches and lite dings. It appears to have the original feather rest too.. It could be cleaned up some, here are a few pics of it.
Thanks, Hoof


(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS137.jpg)

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS138.jpg)


(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS139.jpg)

QuoteOriginally posted by Wade Phillips:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list  1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?

[/b][/QUOTE

Hoof - Just added your VA611L to the serial number list on page one of this thread. Thanks for posting it.

Is the bow in original condition with the original serial number marked on it?

It is cool to finally see two consecutive serial numbers on the list... [/b]

Hoof -

Thanks for posting the photographs of VA611L.

It is a real beauty and looks a lot like VA612L as far as the wood type and grain.

Stinger -

I love the grain in Brazilian Rosewood in the sight window of your 59 Kodiak Special. I wish they all looked that good.

In looking at the photograph of the serial number that you posted, the actual handwritten lettering on that serial number doesn't appear to be anything close to the original lettering that I have ever seen on any of the dozens of 1959 Kodiak Specials that I have seen and owned over the years.  

If the fellow you bought the bow from, HootieC. said said the only thing that was done that was he had Rick do sanding and new decals, I would have to guess that the lettering on the serial number was already altered before HotieC acquired the bow.

Just compare your 64" to the photograph that Hoof posted of the serial number on his 62"...

    (http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/004-Copy.jpg)

   (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS137.jpg)

I thought you might like this.  I bought this bow in 1974 from Dave Cooks sporting good in Aurora CO.
It was in a close out bin for $25.00.

 (http://i.imgur.com/sHP4QP9.jpg) (http://imgur.com/sHP4QP9)

 (http://i.imgur.com/TI2uzeV.jpg) (http://imgur.com/TI2uzeV)

 (http://i.imgur.com/fjnPUx9.jpg) (http://imgur.com/fjnPUx9)

 (http://i.imgur.com/VUF3tYG.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VUF3tYG)

 (http://i.imgur.com/tFxy941.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tFxy941)

On of my favorite models.  I must say that rosewood looks terrific.

ttt

Looks like my last post on this thread was May 8, 2011,... boy that is nearly three years ago. Time sure flies.

Don't know that anybody is still interested in Kodiak Specials, but if anyone has any 1959 KS to add to the list on the first page of this thread, please post them and I will get that list updated, if I can remember how to do that.

Have seen some unusual and/or really nice Kodiak Specials turn up over the past few years. Was lucky enough to pick up a few additions including one in December 2012 with the "EXP" factory marking, which only provides more proof that that we collectors sure haven't found and documented everything that is out there.

Here's another 59 KS to add to the list:

1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon

I have a couple more '59 Kodiak Specials to add also.

XE683 66" 49# no underlays

WL570 64" 50# no underlays

Thought I might have posted this one before but don't see it on the list anywhere so here it is. Along with a 58 and a 62.

1959 KS
XF086 66" 40# no underlays
 (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears012_zpsc965a7aa.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears012_zpsc965a7aa.jpg.html)
 (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears009_zps38e6cfbc.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-%5BURL=http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears009_zps38e6cfbc.jpg.html) collector/media/Bears010_zpsc053abb0.jpg.html] (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears010_zpsc053abb0.jpg)[/URL]  (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears007_zps778b8679.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears007_zps778b8679.jpg.html)

I have a 1959 KS to add as well;

YA097, 68", 50# with underlays.

Brad

Gonna move this to the top yet again...and yes Wade we are still interested in those special Bears

DDave

Guys,

Thanks so much for sharing. Glad to see the interest in Bear bows continue.

Just added data from these posts to the list on the first page of this thread...

1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon

1959 64", 50# - WL570 - no underlays - Jack Shanks

1959 66", 49# - XE683 - no underlays - Jack Shanks

1959 66" 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry M

1959 68", 50# - YA097 - with underlays - Hobow

I'm bringing this back to the front page.  I used it again today to identify three bows.  All three are 1956s.  That means I need to find a 55, 57, and 58.

I have the following K Specials:

1960 64" 45# - WD 106

Also have the  1959 64" 45# mismarked K Special that Stinger reported earlier with photos in this post (UD 448) where the UD was a W at one time. Of my five bows, it's still my go to bow during the summer 3D season 'cause it shoots as smooth as butter.  

Babbling Bob

The '59 UD 448 was the "UB 448" as Stinger showed on page 13 of this post with underlays.  Also on the '60, there are no underlays, but don't know if this is typical of the '6o's.

Babbling Bob -

Just recorded your 448 on the list of 59 KS serial numbers on page 1 of this thread.

I have the following 1959 Kodiak Specials

64" WC613L. 48#  no underlays

66" XE593  49# L.   No underlays

68" YA309  37#  underlays

68"YA869 44# No underlays

Howdy Folks!

My Kodiak Special is an odd duck, 59 or 60?

68" long
58#
19RX33 serial#
White with grey backing,
Copper coin.
Brazilian Rosewood and other exotic woods.

Oh it has a stamped star under the serial #
Can't post any pictures yet as I am a new member, but pics to follow.

warpedarrow -

Just added your four 59 KS to the list. Thanks for posting the information.

MarkG -

Before posing your Kodiak Special to the list, I would like to ask you to make sure it is a 1959 and not a 1960 as the serial number falls in the sequence when the serial numbering format was being changed in the 1959-1960 bows. We do have a few of the newer serial numbers, but want to make sure the bow is a 1959 rather than a 1960. The photos on the first page of this thread clearly shows the differences.

68", 58# - 19RX33

It is hard to tell if it is a 59 or 60 but reading that the early 59's had 1/4" Maple layers under a Brazilian Rosewood cap on the belly of the bow (facing the archer),leads me to beleive it is a 59.
Re: Begining in 1959 exotic hardwords were used in bear bows for the first time. The earliest 1959's had a 1/4" lamination of maple sandwiched between the two rosewood laminations in the riser.
Handle riser wood from 1948 to 1958 was mostly Michigan maple with some walnut. In 1959 Brazilian rosewood started along with the African hardwoods of Shedua, Bubinga, Tigerwood, Pau-Ferro and Zebrawood. 1964 we find East Indian Rosewood in the top of the line models. In 1965 appears H.C. or high compression material. This is formica, a paper and resin laminate (not ebony wood). It is also used on the Super Magnum and Super Kodiak in the late 60's (I call these the Black Beauties) and parts of the HC 30, HC300 and Tamerlane target bows. By 1973 all model Bear bows are made of futurewood. (A colored polymer plastic impregnated maple) some models as early as 1970.

My bow looks like this one,( Skitterz pics):

 (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture005.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture005.jpg.html)


 (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture001.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture001.jpg.html)

 (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture002.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture002.jpg.html)

MarkG -  

Yes your bow is a 59 if it looks like the images above. I recorded your bow on the list on page one of this thread as...

1959 68", 58# - 19RX33 - no underlays - MarkG

OK let see if I can upload some pics.   (http://i.imgur.com/P0rvsGN.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/RNGbY9L.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/w8DJFI8.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dSq5E4u.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xOCRcq8.jpg)

MarkG -

Nice clean looking 59 KS

(http://i.imgur.com/VKsA59K.jpg)

Thanks Wade, it was love at first sight.
Your collection is amazing by the way!

What do you make of the early style Maple sandwich and the numerical prefixed serial # ? They must have done that to the heavyweight bows, the serial number that is.
Just noticed my bow is the heaviest weight 59 KS so far.

(http://i.imgur.com/MUkGIdE.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/k4rahpF.jpg)

MarkG -

Cool riser with the extra maple lamination. Don't ever recall seeing a 59 KS with a riser like that.

I assume the extra maple lamination ends at the fadeout. Is that correct?

(http://i.imgur.com/Id7jUHb.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/KdhfhAh.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/FybtwpO.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3GSlcGG.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/C7I3ja3.jpg)

Thanks Wade ☺️

MarkG,

That is the coolest 59 KS ever.

The extra maple lamination goes between the ends of the fadeouts and continues as a limb lamination.

Does the extra lamination go all the way to the end of the limb tips?

i wonder if the other heavyweight 59 KS have this for increased poundage or is this purely aesthetics?

(http://i.imgur.com/mpjifYd.jpg)

All the way to the tips Wade.

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkG:
i wonder if the other heavyweight 59 KS have this for increased poundage or is this purely aesthetics?

The heaviest KS that I have, which is similar to yours, is a 65# 1960. It simply has two thick maple laminations rather then three.

I have several 1959 Kodiaks with multiple laminations on the belly side of the riser next to the glass that continue to the limb tips, but the laminations are not between the fade outs.

I would almost have to guess that when the laminations of your bow were glued up, they were unintentionally laid down with thin maple and belly taper laminations reserved. Now, well over 59 years after the fact, it is perhaps impossible to ever know what was intentional and unintentional.

Either way, intentional or unintentional, you have a cool bow.

I have seen two other Bear bows with reversed laminations. One was reversed only on one limb. Of course, that was an obvious error.

Thanks for your kind words, I think it is a cool bow too, it was love at first sight!

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkG:
...When you send your bow in for warranty, Bear returns it with a star stamped in it and erases the serial number...

MarkG -

To my knowledge there is no 1960 era Bear Factory documentation known to authenticate any of the various stampings found on Bear bows from this era, "star", "+", etc.

However, there is much contradictory speculation about these stampings, some of which, is obviously in error.

It seems that you have been told a combination of two generally unrelated events,
1) factory star stamping and
2) removing serial numbers.  

I have seen and presently own several star stamped Bear bows, all of which, have the original serial numbers completely intact.

My limited experience, indicates that your bow is the norm, having a star stamp with the serial number intact.

I've read (or heard) from some of the Bear collectors or "historians" that the "star" stamp and serial number removal were common for the infamous 1961 models and all that stressed glass.

So Wade, what's your take?  Got any '61's with the star AND serial still intact?.

BTW, it's great to see you posting here again.  I'll have to return regularly to continue my Bear education.

Lon,

Yes, here at the Arsenal there are two 61's with the star stamp and serial number.... both have some vertical stress cracks in the limbs.

6F176 - 60" - 70# - Solid Bubinga Riser
26E169 - 60" - 53# - Solid Bubinga Riser

I do not have any 61 Kodiaks with the serial number removed, although I have some other Bear bows with the serial number intentionally removed and some with the serial number faded away or unreadable.

I did have a '59 Alaskan with the "22" stamp and no serial...

Sorry, but I guess I'm getting into the weeds.

While there are many different combinations of stampings and factory labeling on Bear Bows, there are also a number of different non-standard factory labeling on bows.

Many collectors want to own standard factory bows that have standard factory labeling. They feel that the removal of a serial number or labeling, or the addition of an after market stamping devalues the item. Many of these collectors have more interest in shooting or hunting with these collectible bows, than collecting every known variation of a particular manufacturer, model, year or length.  

The rarest breed, (if known to exist), would probably be collectors who actively search for and have extensive collections of Bear bows with different stampings and non standard factory labelings.

Lets face it, a floor to ceiling rack of 2 dozen or more of the same year bow that have hardly any noticeable variations, is probably much less exciting than the same rack with noticeably different, eye catching bows.  

Generally, it is the nature of many collectors to want to have a unique or rare item. Some collectors who are neophytes in the archery field, have extensive collecting experience in far more widely popular fields such as stamps or coins.

Many serious stamp and coin collectors look for any slight variation in items and grade or value these anomalies with great reverence.

From time to time, it seems that some of these obsessions from other collecting fields leach into the archery collecting discipline.

Wade,

Was the 22 stamp used to designate structural repair to the bow?

I am cleaning up a Deluxe with the 22 stamp on it.  When I pulled off the feather rest I found a small hole in the shelf that I honestly can't tell if it was drilled or a worm hole.  I put a couple of cc's of super glue into it for good measure.  At that time I had not found any problems with the wood in the riser.  Now that I have a couple of dozen coats of finish on the bow and can really see the wood well, I can barely see a very small crack running from the grip and up over the shelf. Now I am wondering if the bow was sent back to Grayling and I am finding the repair.

QuoteOriginally posted by warpedarrow:


Was the 22 stamp used to designate structural repair to the bow?

NO

I have owned many 22 bows and all were still in excellent and original shooting condition.

Some were stamped with more than two 2's.

I owned two 59s that each had five 2s (55555) stamped in the risers.

Both were great shooters, in original condition.

I still have one of them, it's one of many of my favorites.

So is there a reason for the stamps that you know of?  It seems counterproductive for Bear to mar the beauty of their top line of bows unless it is for a very good reason.  I have two Deluxes with the 22 stamp.

Perhaps we should log which KS bows have stars and 2 numbers and see if we can draw some sort of parallel from the list? Interesting to see how many star bows there are and what is the poundage or wood types?

Again, there is no Bear Factory documentation that is known to me that defines the meaning of any of the stampings.

That being said, more than one 1950-1960s Bear Salesman has told me that the bows with a stamping (that is any stamping, i.e., star, 22, etc.) were discount priced bows, such as left over bows from previous year's models, blems, refinished returns, etc, that were sold at discounted price and with no warranty on the bow.

Also talked to dealers who sold the discounted bows including the top volume dealer of these bows at one time.

Also have Bear factory invoices that document the invoiced bow as a "second", and invoiced at a discounted price.

The only thing I don't have is a serial number on a bow that matches one of the serial numbers of the seconds that Bear sold, which would provide unquestionable documentation of a specific stamping. Maybe that will turn up someday, you never know, stranger things have probably happened.

Any observations on the meaning of the star and how many are out there?

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkG:
Any observations on the meaning of the star and how many are out there?

Any stamping is a discounted bow, with no warranty.

The "secret detailed meaning" of each individual stamping is unknown to exist in any documentation from the Bear Archery Factory.

It is amusing to hear speculation about the "secret detailed meaning" of a specific stamping, when at the same time not a single scrap of paper from the Bear Archery Factory can be produced by the speculator(s) as proof to the meaning of any specific stamping.

Regarding the question about "how many stars are out there", - who knows? - Hey, how many bows are out there? - who knows?

Standard answer for unknown numbers questions... "exactly half the total if it were doubled."

Your question, "Any observations on the meaning of the star", has a theme song that our two year grand daughter sings along with her grandmother on the piano...

"Twinkle, twinkle little star, how I wander what you are..."

Here is another oddball 59 KS for your enjoyment.
This one is a late 59 with brown on the front and back.  
3SX60
66"
55#


(http://i.imgur.com/LhrLrih.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/KNg95RC.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/fM3vEcZ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Ye9mc63.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/QpFT2hw.jpg)

It makes you wonder if it was the first bow on a Monday and somebody grabbed a box of brown glass from the Kodiak line.  Probably a new employee or perhaps a hung over one.

I certainly consider the brown glass to be preferable to some of the grays, light greens, and white that were soon to adorn the Kodiak Specials.

Might have been ordered that way for hunting. I know of a K mag ordered with white glass for snow hunting conditions. ????????

Betcha Fred gave artistic license to the the boys building the bows...creating a precursor to what will be in 1960.
Who knows what it was, all the flys on the wall that witnessed these things have all up and died of old age.

MarkG,

Cool looking brown glass 59 Kodiak Special. Have seen several odd duck 59 and 60 Bear bows, reversed colored glass and both sides the same color white. Both sides same color brown, really makes a different looking bow. Thanks so much for sharing photographs of your unique bow.

Would this be a '64?

 (http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr330/livrht/DSCF0338_zps86bdb33a.jpg) (http://s496.photobucket.com/user/livrht/media/DSCF0338_zps86bdb33a.jpg.html)

                        Good Shooting,
                                         Craig

Craig -

Yes, a 1964 for sure with the glass full length on the back of the riser. The 1963 did not have glass the full length on the back of the riser.

MarkG -

Forgot until just now while looking the images of your 1959 Kodiak Special with brown glass on the back & belly...

I have a very early 1957 Kodiak Special with brown glass on both the back & belly.

This differs from the 1956 that had brown glass on the belly and gray glass on the back, it also differs greatly from the 1957 that had tan glass on both the back & belly.

ttt

Tagging this thread for future reference.

Thanks to all for the knowledge shared here.

ttt again

Some great deals on Kodiak Specials out there right now...lets run this one back to the top

DDave

1962 Kodiaks, Kodiak Magnums and Kodiak Specials, in particular, have come out of hiding.

That really dirty looking 62 Kodiak Special that just listed on the big site has my name written all over it.  Problem is, I already have a beautiful 62 KS and several bows waiting in line for a makeover.  I have let my train get off track and I purchased that 63 Grizzly with the tiny repaired spot on the limb and also a 1970 Tamerlane. Unless I get back on track it is going to take a long time to finish my KS collection which only lacks four bows.

If you're still collecting serial #s for 59 Kodiak Specials, I have one to add:
YA419
68"
42#
Like all of them, it's a very pretty bow. It has the underlayment near the tips.

My 1959 KS specs are  WC 191 64" 34#

Shandor - Just added your 68" 1959 KS, Thanks for your imput.

jr 1959 - Just added your 64" 1959 KS to the list. Can you tell me if it has underlays? Would guess that you would have mentioned them if they were on the bow. Thanks so much for your input.

Ttt

Another great one    :thumbsup:

I love this old thread! It's got some age on it but the information does not exist anywhere else! Plus it is chock full of great posts by some great guys who are no longer with us. I have been hankering for a birth-year 1956 K Special to go along with my '56 Kodiak, 57#. I have been holding out for a 60" 1956 KS because they were built on the same form as the '56 Kodiak , i.e.,  some really fast limbs, but there's a 64" '56 on the auction site  offering 65# of wallop, so I'm waffling. ;)

Gee, KInd of died out here.  I have a 1959  62" KS  VA 246  has inlays
   Hope this gets on the list.

 I used to have a nice 59 Kodiak Special but I traded it for a month old Thunderhorn longbow.
But a few years ago I trade a Asbell pullover and a 3 rivers travel longbow case for this Kodiak Special.[attachment=1,msg2997202][attachment=2,msg2997202][attachment=3,msg2997202]