After getting my bow back out after a couple months of a bit too cold, I noticed my arrows kicking right as they flew. After some searching on here I found a thread were Arne Moe mentioned a bad release could be back tension. What? Can it be that I am really having back tension problems? Well I think yes. If I really tighten my rhomboid the arrow kicks left(weak on purpose)I had my wife video a few shots for me and also noticed my elbow seemed a bit high as well, another Arne Moe thread said this could be back tension as well. I am chalking this up to the time off and not keeping back strength up. Went back to my 35# recurve and am working form like crazy Really just wanted to share this experience and see if anyone else has had similar troubles. The struggle is real!
I just added a clicker to my main bow, has been eye opening and has certainly improved my form when I grab a bow without one too.
Mine just came in the mail.
I struggle with back tension every time I shoot. I tend to pluck the string, which I also think is a tension problem.
If the shooter is consciously pulling the hand back he is not using his back to hold the string. If properly done the hand will go back naturally. It's hard to teach but once you do it right and feel the shot you will know what to look for. The key is to have a relaxed forearm and draw with the back. Rights and lefts disappear when down correctly.
My problem is I tend to collapse after holding. This happens about one or two times a session. Any advice on this?
One of the hardest things about back tension for me was learning what it really was. For near 20 years I thought I knew...thought it was "like squeezing an orange between your shoulder blades". Wrong, wrong, wrong...
Learning to use it properly will do wonders for your release. A good release will do wonders for your shooting.
The first step is to learn what back tension really is.
Chad
QuoteOriginally posted by LBR:
One of the hardest things about back tension for me was learning what it really was. For near 20 years I thought I knew...thought it was "like squeezing an orange between your shoulder blades". Wrong, wrong, wrong...
Learning to use it properly will do wonders for your release. A good release will do wonders for your shooting.
The first step is to learn what back tension really is.
Chad
SEMANTICS!!! :)
So I teach human movement for a living. I've been doing it for 27 years now. When someone say s to me.... "More back tension" (with relation to drawing a bow) my response is. " I can't get any more back tension" it's complete. There's nothing left! I agree with some of you the words "BACK TENSION" mean NOTHING tom most people. Because it's NOT the actual ACTION.
All the best coaches will tell you back tension is NOT pinching your shoulder blades together. AKA Scapular Retraction. And every one learns differently. And we'll all understand it if we're taught in a way that causes us to learn best and in ACTION it's not always VERBAL.
for me it's "rotate the elbow posterior" or toward the back. I can do this and not focus or think of actual scapular retraction. If you're doing and thinking of this you're NOT thinking of your hand tension. And other things that may be wasted energy.
Don't stress if "back tension" doesn't make sense to you.. Because that's YOUR TRUTH and it's real to you..
I hope this helps
Do you utilize a nose tip anchor?
I am finding that a short session with a form master just pulling the bow back without the use of my fingers on the string before shooting helps me get the right feeling. If I mess up on a shot its back to the form master for 5-10 pulls.
Yep. The Form Master is a great tool...it will really open your eyes as to whether you are using your back muscles or not.
We should ring those Olympic coaches and tell them they have been scammed by a myth ...
they should get a refund from all the scientists and body mechanic researchers ...
Saying it's not important to you is one thing ,saying it's a myth is absolutely laughable.
QuoteOriginally posted by forestdweller:
I agree, I personally don't believe in back tension myself. I think that it's a myth.
I've said this before in other threads and some people probably think I'm crazy for saying this but I want my back to not be tense while shooting, I want it to be as relaxed as possible.
When I have made my best shot's my whole body has been very relaxed. When I start to tense up and engage my muscles a lot more deliberately my shooting goes to hell. I want back relaxation, not tension. This way all of my muscles can work together in conjunction to pull the string back including the back, shoulders, and the arm muscles.
. [/qb][/QUOTE]
,
From your post earlier this month , 10th of April
"I can really feel my back pull together as I draw back a heavy bow and I can feel the back muscles next to the spine pulling together tight along with my lats and when I go back to a lighter bow it feels as easy as pie to draw back. "
Post 9 - http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=008158;p=1#000009
I'm confused ? Do you have a video of yourself shooting so we can see what you mean ?
Cheers
I would suggest a little reading on shooting the English Warbow, or 'shooting in the bow' may be right up your alley . You may find it enlightening.
And I really don't care what Greyarcher on YouTube says ... until he has successfully hunted game and/or won a tourney I'll seek my advice elsewhere. Everyone is a great shot on Youtibe. Lol....
Perhaps , if you don't care to use the terms then lay off saying they are a myth.
And as an FYI, some of us shoot over 70# and still used back tension.
Not saying it's for everyone , but discrediting it when people obviously use it to great success is just plain foolish.
Take this for what it's worth. My own personal anecdote.
Been shooting a Trad bow for the past 12 years and worried about back tension and my hand not coming straight back on release but flipping out away. Drove me nuts and figured it was just how I shot.
Had an enlightening conversation with a prominent Hill style shooter and I implemented his advice of making my shot more fluid (I.e pulling through the shot).
Took video of my previous shooting and in slow mo it showed that I was collapsing a tiny bit just before release.
Now by keeping the shot fluid to anchor and never stopping the "pull" my release is a lot cleaner and my hand comes straight back. In slow mo video I'm still drawing the same length BUT I'm not losing any length just prior to release.
My point is that proper form dictates back tension but I believe the major problem comes from the loss of tension that "settling" into anchor can infer. Some people can draw straight to anchor and keep pulling. God bless them. I personally have to NEVER stop the pulling. Once it's gone, it's gone. After 12 years it's an epiphany of what Terry, Rod, Arnie and the rest have been saying.
Do I believe in back tension? Of course! But the loss of it during any part of the shot is a deal breaker. Fix that and the rest is "semantics".
Greyarcher...really?
If some archers don't believe in BT, or believe it's a myth, then there is little anyone can say to change their minds. The best archers in national and international competition use it to reach the podiums. The best archery coaches teach archers to develop BT into their shot. If you're an archer who has no use for incorporating BT into your shot, then so be it. As for me, I'm continually working on improving my archery accuracy and that includes the use of BT.
QuoteMost guys that say they do it can't even explain it clearly
Explain how to tie a shoelace. Very simple to do, not so easy to put into words.
QuoteThe best archers in national and international competition use it to reach the podiums. The best archery coaches teach archers to develop BT into their shot.
Exactly, and that speaks for itself. I'll also note that a great many of these shooters are also proficient and successful hunters.
For those who care to have BT described, I will offer this. BT is better felt than explained. So, try this. Either lay on the floor, back against the floor or stand with your back against the wall. With your string hand side come to anchor with your upper arm and elbow against the wall/floor. Now, with your elbow against the surface try to lift your body from the floor/wall simply by pushing your elbow into the surface. That is what BT feels like during the shot.
Or...place your string hand on your chest. Without moving your hand, rotate your elbow back. What you feel on the inside of that scapula is "back tension".
I don't know where some people get the notions they have. If you don't use back tension (the rhomboid muscles) you can't draw a bow to start with. Using the rhomboids correctly will only add consistency.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
I don't know where some people get the notions they have. If you don't use back tension (the rhomboid muscles) you can't draw a bow to start with. Using the rhomboids correctly will only add consistency.
Precisely. Archery is no different than any other physical sport. It requires the use of certain muscles some more than others to achieve correct form regardless of style or aiming technique. Take for instance the pitcher in baseball. Sure there are about 100 different throwing styles and arm slots but the one constant that all major league pitchers share is the use of great hip action to generate a whipping action out of the arm.
Dweller, you are correct when you say that weight lifting requires the use of multiple muscles however most lifts are intended to target one particular muscle or area of the body. For example the bench press is targeting the pec or chest muscle even tho the arms shoulders and triceps are engaged. The smaller muscles are simply not engaged as much as the targeted muscle.
Saying that back tension in the sport of archery is a myth is entirely false.
Thanks !
Glad we cleared that up otherwise these things end up a whole bunch of Lovestoshoot88 and Stringstack !
Quote
I "snap shoot" or fluid shoot, in which I keep pulling through release and through the anchor with no pausing.
I know for a fact that I can feel my shoulder blades and lats pull tight throughout the draw especially as I'm reaching anchor but is that back tension? Don't know don't care. All that I care about is hitting the spot.
I promise you that if I started to worry about many of the concepts associated with archery that my shooting would go down hill.
I definitely think that form is important though and that blank bale shooting is invaluable but I think in the case of archery, for many (me included), ignorance is best when it comes to these concepts and maybe some people would benefit from learning to "feel" how good their shot is when blank bailing and let the target be their coach.
[/QB]
Forest, based on what you're describing, you're using back tension. Whether you know it or not, I think you're employing what we are talking about.
FWIW, I shoot a decent amount of competitions throughout the south and have seen some VERY good shooters.
I have seen a lot more good shooters who use a static release than ones who use back tension.
Static Release shooters I know who are GOOD:
Rusty Horne
Corey Bailey
Dewayne Martin
Jim Powell
Back Tension:
Jimmy Blackmon
John Demmer
I do believe that both of them exist, but I also believe there is some overlap. I don't think you can hold your bow back without using your back tension to an extent.
While all the elements of good form can get complicated, let's not lose track of the fact that if all forces are straight forward and straight back, the arrow will always go in the direction of the forces. If you line up your eye with the forces, the arrow will go where you're looking. Push directly toward the target, pull directly away from the target, put your eye over the arrow, eliminate forces in any other direction, and you will always be on line with the target. When you miss, what kind of force did you introduce that was out of line with the target? Did you move your eye away from over the arrow? Did you give a slight off-line jerk as you released the arrow? Did you torque the string or the bow? Learn to be aware of these forces and you won't have to read anything I or anyone else has to say on back tension or anything else.
I think we sometimes use an intellectual understanding of something as a substitute for the real thing, and I am as guilty of this as anyone else. I enjoy using my mind, but I will have to admit that I would probably be a better shot if I thought about things less and learned to be more aware of what my body is trying to tell me on a physical level.
There are opinions and then there are facts....
You cannot draw a bow without back tension. Fact
There is proper back tension and improper back tension. Fact
Stance has nothing to do with back tension...form is from the waist up. Fact.
Don't blame lack of back tension on bad form....
Static release has nothing to do with back tension either.... where does all this stuff come from?
:campfire: