I've often struggled while aiming and pulling through the shot. Once I would settle in at anchor, I would focus most of my attention on aiming while pulling. The problem I was having is that I would either stop pulling or lose back tension while aiming. Today, I began implementing the concept that your mind can only focus on one thing at a time, and to allow your subconscious mind to aim. These are not new concepts, but I've never tried to stop focusing so hard while aiming, allowing my subconscious mind to hold the aim. People like Rod Jenkins, and most recently for me, Joel Turner & Matt Zernsak have preached these concepts in whole or in part. The results were amazing on a couple levels. First, I had less mental fatigue because I wasn't focusing hard on the spot. I simply placed the tip of the arrow where it needed to be on a conscious level, then focused all my attention on expansion. My releases were cleaner and more consistent because all I had to focus on was pulling until the shot broke. For those of you who shoot a dynamic release, give this a try. It may help you.
I've always said, that there is no point in aiming until the bow is drawn. Kind of like aiming a gun very carefully THEN trying to open the bolt, get a cartridge out of your pocket, putting it in the chamber, closing the bolt, all the while holding that perfect aim. Makes no sense to me.
Load the gun (draw the bow), Aim then shoot!
Arne
Good point, Moe. My issues are the divided task of trying to finely aim while pulling through the shot. I, too, have never understood how people can aiming before they draw the bow.
I use a similar concept when shooting with the dead release. There is no difference in my way of shooting with the dead release and the way Rod Jenkins teaches the dynamic release through the commitment phase of the shot. Rod teaches that aiming should not take place until after you have come to full draw and anchored and have committed to the shot. Of course, it is helpful as you draw the bow to anchor to have your body in alignment with the target and the arrow pointed generally where you want it to go, so that no major adjustments need to be made during the aiming phase of the shot, which requires some level of target awareness while drawing the bow. I believe that Rod recommends that your conscious mind focus on nothing but aiming during the aiming phase of the shot, while leaving expansion to the subconscious mind, which seems to be the opposite of what you do, but you both recognize that the conscious mind is only capable of one activity at a time.
I too have had problems maintaining back tension while aiming, but using the dead release, my problem is more not losing back tension than expanding it. What I have been doing, which seems to work, is for the last conscious thought I have, just before concentrating on aiming, to be setting the level of back tension I want, which I can feel by the pressure of the string on my eye socket, and be aware of that pressure as I begin to aim. I think I lose this awareness as my full concentration shifts to aiming, but I seem to be able to maintain back tension without consciously thinking about it for those few moments of aiming, so long as it is the last conscious thought I have.
My release is triggered subconsciously after shifting my focus to aiming, the same as Rod describes for his dynamic release, and followthrough is also the same as Rod describes.
Interesting, Dave. You are most likely correct about Rod's approach to focusing your attention to aiming while subconsciously expanding. And, this approach can absolutely be used with the static release too. I shouldn't have limited my comments to those who have a dynamic release.
For me, as I focus on aiming it seems that I cannot expand through the shot subconsciously. It's a very deliberate process for me. The concept that once you consciously aim and then adjust your entire focus on expansion, while the subconscious mind continues to hold the aim, has really helped me.
On a side note, before I retired from law enforcement, our firearms program incorporated a similar concept with pistol shooting. One drill involved shooting the targets while focusing on the front sight. The other drill was to focus our attention on the target while allowing the sights to float in the background. I shot slightly better with the latter than the former.
QuoteOriginally posted by longbow fanatic 1:
On a side note, before I retired from law enforcement, our firearms program incorporated a similar concept with pistol shooting. One drill involved shoot target while focusing on the front sight. The other drill was to focus our attention on the target while allowing the sights to float in the background. I shot slightly better with the latter than the former.
50 years ago in Marine Corps bootcamp, they taught us to focus on the front sight. They seemed to be able to recognize those who were focusing on the target instead, and gave them additional "instruction." The way they recognized it was a term they called "chasing the bull," which meant that there was a circle of shots around the bullseye, and none or few shots in the bullseye itself. I did fine focusing on the front sight, and didn't want any additional "instruction." I always wondered about that, and also wondered about why we are instructed to focus on the target rather than the tip of the arrow (assuming we are using the tip of the arrow to aim). I never was able to figure it out, and if you have any additional insights, I would appreciate hearing them. Although I recognize it is a bit of a digression, maybe the powers that be will give us a little extra leeway in the interest of furthering the general fund of knowledge of those who don't know.
First of all, thank you for your service! I wish I had a scientific answer for you, but I don't. What comes to mind is the difference between shooting relative close range targets vs distant targets. The eye/hand relationship between close range targets and accurate, quick shots on target require a different focus and aiming process than distant targets. In bow terms, it's kind of similar to the level of accuracy of the average archer shooting at say 30 yards vs. the olympic style archer shooting 70M at their level of proficiency. It would be interesting to know if the Oly crowd focus on the sight pin at those distances. I would suspect they do.
That's why shooting pistol/bows while focusing on the target works better than attempting the same process at distant targets where you would be chasing the bull. Just a thought.
QuoteOriginally posted by moebow:
I've always said, that there is no point in aiming until the bow is drawn. Kind of like aiming a gun very carefully THEN trying to open the bolt, get a cartridge out of your pocket, putting it in the chamber, closing the bolt, all the while holding that perfect aim. Makes no sense to me.
Load the gun (draw the bow), Aim then shoot!
Arne
Works for some, not for all. A basketball player looks and his brain is doing the thing and the hands and muscles and everything else fall inline. I aim before drawing, the thing between bow full draw and arrow release I have no idea what is happening. It works for me.
If you shoot gap or "float on the gold" yes, aiming is useless before.
LBF, The "Oly" crowd focuses on the target with the pin floating in the vision. Most of them anyway.
Arne
QuoteOriginally posted by moebow:
LBF, The "Oly" crowd focuses on the target with the pin floating in the vision. Most of them anyway.
Arne
Wow. Like Dave, I'm now confused to the science of it. At that distance, the margin of error is minute. I would assume at that distance, the level of precision would require precise focus on this pin. Thanks!
We're into a HIGHLY debatable topic now. (EVERYONE likes to argue aiming techniques) The front sight focus for handguns is a defensive (relatively close range technique). Standard archery technique, is to let the sight float in the vision while visually focusing on the target to be hit.
Really no confusion, just different techniques for different purposes.
Arne
Arne,
Thanks for explaining. I'm not trying to be controversial or provocative. I don't want an argument. I'm just fascinated by this topic.
Great reading , thanks for posting questions and answers.
Wish I had someone close by to help me with these concepts.
So glad this works for you ....and you have improved your accuracy for others like myself just does not work ...I aim well before I even raise the bow and sometimes the bow is raised for quite some time while waiting for the window of the shot opportunity 2lto presentitself....it doesn't work for everyone again it's not an absolute written in stone.
That being said it should not be preached as the gospel as the only way to aim... there are multiple ways for multiple personalities and make up some...there is no broad brush for all when it comes to when someone should aim as different styles implement different sequences.
Stay after it !!!
Yep. Just look at who actually kills stuff and you will see that when to aim is not an absolute.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
So glad this works for you ....and you have improved your accuracy for others like myself just does not work ...I aim well before I even raise the bow and sometimes the bow is raised for quite some time while waiting for the window of the shot opportunity 2lto presentitself....it doesn't work for everyone again it's not an absolute written in stone.
That being said it should not be preached as the gospel as the only way to aim... there are multiple ways for multiple personalities and make up some...there is no broad brush for all when it comes to when someone should aim as different styles implement different sequences.
Stay after it !!!
Very true!
After rereading my post that you quoted I can tell you one absolute for sure......
I hate cell phones!!!! :readit: :knothead: :banghead:
Very interested in this topic as well.
Here in the US, pistol shooting is largely taught with a front sight focus. Same with open-sighted rifles. Same with scoped rifles (crosshair focus). The target is blurred. I've used this technique with archery (gapping, compound with sights) with some success. Sometimes it's better. Sometimes it's about the same.
IDF (Israeli military) teaches target focus and point-shooting for close range targets (0-20 yards) with pistols. I don't know about rifles or other precision shooting instruction for them. Target focus definitely helps you see your surroundings, multiple targets, identify friendlies, etc. At close range, I see its advantages. But they're also teaching to Joe Schmo since everybody is conscripted after HS. Target focus is a little easier to teach, even if it may not be as accurate.
Shotguns, I almost universally do better with a target focus. I have a better sense of lead and timing for farther shots if both eyes are on the target.
Obviously, any form of instinctive shooting will require a target focus.
Most of the time, I have a clear but transparent view of my arrow while looking at my spot.
Is there any real research behind what is taught (target vs sight focus)? Or is this just geographic style?
QuoteShotguns, I almost universally do better with a target focus. I have a better sense of lead and timing for farther shots if both eyes are on the target.
I do too. I wondered for years why I was so inconsistent duck hunting, and finally realized that some of the time I was focusing on the bead and sometimes on the duck. My batting average went way up when I always focused on the duck.
Arne mentioned that Olympic archers focus on the target. I know they are always trying whatever they can to see what works best, so I have to assume that they have tried focusing on the sight, and it hasn't worked as well as focusing on the target.
Great topic!
I've been working on learning to shoot Hill style, as taught by John Schulz. I'm improving slowly.
Recently I also had an epiphany of sorts, which may be pertinent to this discussion. I'll try to explain it:
I wear strong prescription lenses, which have the undesired effect that when my right sighting eye is peering sideways out of the inside corner of the lens, my vision is not in perfecf focus. So for most of my time learning I was therefore looking at the target more through the center of the lens, then turning my head more sideways while simultaneously attempting to acheive both proper back/shoulder tension and aiming. The results were not consistent.
Finally a couple of weeks ago I too had a big breakthrough: I now position my head with the target in the upper left corner of my lens FIRST, exactly where it should appear at full draw and properly aimed. THEN I begin the Hill swing draw, being careful to not move my head at all in relation to the target. As Howard would put it, I "drill a hole" with my vision into my aiming point at the target.
To achieve this during the swing draw, my shoulders come up to full draw and proper alignment without my head moving again. All drawing and aiming then takes place below my neck. My sighting is indirect, although I maintain a "sense" of both the "angle" of my arrow and the point as I come to full draw. Then I release.
I don't know why it's taken me so long to come to this realization. It's obvious to me now when I go back and watch videos of accomplished swing draw shooters. And it is also very fluid and natural. But I am often a slow "learner" when it comes to physical activities such as fly casting, playing the violin, and now trad archery.
Best wishes,
Frank
Frank,
That's great! Having those break throughs in archery are amazing. Accuracy improves and the sport becomes even more fun! Thanks for sharing your discovery. Perhaps some else with the same problem will benefit from what you've leaned.