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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Emerald Archer on March 28, 2017, 10:17:00 PM

Title: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on March 28, 2017, 10:17:00 PM
Hello all!
New shooter here. I have been shooting for approximately 3 years. I've started off with a Samick Journey (basically the Sage but 2 inches longer). I have been learning as I go, lots of reading, and observing other shooters. I recently decided I would try out paper tuning to find out wood arrows would be useful. I started off by buying a test kit from 3riversarchery. The test kit has 35-40#, 40-45#, 45-50#, and 50-55# - 8 arrows total, 11/32" diameter shafting. 125 grain tip. Shafts are fletched and cut to 29". My bow is 40# and my draw is 28". My nocking point is set at 3/8" and my brace height is set within manufacturer recommendation so I have it at 8". I went to the range and had it setup about 8 feet away from me and I was shooting at shoulder height, straight on. Here is a picture of my results. I had a lot of porpoising and fishtailing! Not once did I get close to a bullet hole with 3 small slits for the fletching. We went through all the arrows again and had the same results. I am consistently drawing to an anchor point, using back tension, holding for about 2-3 seconds, and then releasing. I've had other archers watch my form and there's not off with it that should be causing this.
 (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Protonstream/20170328_185154_zps0hmod3du.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/Protonstream/media/20170328_185154_zps0hmod3du.jpg.html)

Now that you have specifics, what are your recommendations? Anything clearly off? Any help is greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: McDave on March 29, 2017, 12:56:00 AM
Have you tried bare shaft tuning?  Personally, I think bare shaft tuning is better suited to our finger release than paper tuning.  Some people bare shaft tune first, and then paper tune for further refinement.  Of course, there are others who jump right in to paper tuning, and they might be able to better help you with your question (particularly if you weren't looking for advice about trying other tuning methods!)
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: moebow on March 29, 2017, 07:08:00 AM
I think 3/8" for your nocking point MAY be too low, especially with 11/32" shafts.  Start with 1/2 to 5/8" high and see what you get.
And, as always with this type of question we need to know, are you right or left handed??

Arne
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on March 29, 2017, 09:08:00 AM
Moebow,

I am left handed.

What you're thinking is along the lines of what I was thinking. I do have another string so I can easily take the brass nock off and put another one on.

McDave,

Nope. I have not tried bare shaft tuning yet. If Moebows simple suggestion does not work, I suppose that would be the next intelligent step to take!
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: bhylton on March 29, 2017, 09:31:00 AM
try a double nock set too if you have not... keeps the arrow from sliding down the string on release. should be able to attach them loose enough to slide on the string for adjusting but tight enough to shoot. good luck!
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: nek4me on March 29, 2017, 01:10:00 PM
In addition to the adjustments suggested.... what are you using for paper? I don't see many feather cuts in it. The paper may be too thick and/or too loose to show the results. I use a sheet of newspaper taped tight over the bottom of a cardboard box with the bottom cut out and an inch or two left around the edges to maintain the box shape and the feather cuts show up nicely.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on March 29, 2017, 01:25:00 PM
To be honest nek4me, I am not sure what exactly the paper is. It is the paper supplied and used at the local archery range. But I will keep this in mind!
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: on March 29, 2017, 09:38:00 PM
New shooter?  Honestly... throw the paper away, set your nocking point about 5/8" high and shoot for several months.

A grossly out of spine arrow will shoot down the middle pretty well.  Shoot and enjoy, learn form, then tune this fall.   :)
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Roy from Pa on March 31, 2017, 06:49:00 AM
http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: on March 31, 2017, 09:48:00 AM
I'd suggest downloading the print version and refer to it often.

I never could pull off paper tuning any bow when shooting with fingers.  I tip my hat to those that can.  The problem I have is, if you move up or back three feet, you get different reading.

Bare shaft and arrow impact tuning with give you immediate and accurate results.  If you're determined to tune, use that printable version in that link Rob from Pa posted.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: slowbowjoe on March 31, 2017, 05:52:00 PM
It's a little hard to tell, but it looks to me as though there's no real consistency in how the tears read. For me, that may suggest form. While it looks good to observers, subleties like plucking, bow hand pressure, and string finger pressure have a big effect on arrow flight, and will show o the paper tune.

All of which kind of agrees with what Jim suggested above. Maybe not get too absorbed in fine tuning. I'm not preaching here, I'm no expert. I know my tune is as close as it's gonna get, but still see some arrows fly true, and some kick a little. Which. I think, supports my feeling on it.

I tune by sight (and sound) with a fletched arrow, and confirm with a broadhead. Once in a great while I'll paper tune for a little extra feedback.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 01, 2017, 08:56:00 AM
Ken Beck arrow tuning is very good info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJ6-HjPMTM&t=677s
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Roy from Pa on April 01, 2017, 09:07:00 AM
Also Jimmy Blackmon has good info.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOklaPN44TM&t=46s
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on April 02, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
I greatly appreciate the feedback I have received. I intend to give it another shot today (pun intended). I'll be sure to share my results.

slowbowjoe,
Quite possible. I have considered posting a video for form check to see what people think.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on April 02, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
As advised above, I did try a higher nocking point. I slowly moved it up to see if that would alter my results and it did not. I still got the same bad paper results.

Looks like I'm going to have to try bare shaft tuning.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: McDave on April 02, 2017, 08:22:00 PM
Bare shaft tuning is the method of choice for most trad archers.  What is your reluctance to try it?
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: BMorv on April 03, 2017, 02:43:00 PM
I discovered that 1st link that Roy posted a couple years ago when I was getting into traditional archery.  I couldn't imagine it being anymore straight forward than that.  I refer to that page every time I start shooting a new bow.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: BMorv on April 03, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
*the bare shaft tuning page that is
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on April 05, 2017, 11:23:00 AM
No real reluctance McDave. Paper tuning was just the more simple way to go since I had everything available. The trick in this instance will be cutting the shafts down to get them to the right spine. I do not have the proper cutting tools available.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: McDave on April 05, 2017, 12:33:00 PM
If your draw length is 28" and your arrows are cut to 29", you're not going to want to do much cutting.  I have the same draw length as you, and I prefer to leave my arrows at 29", for consistency in aiming, and also to leave an inch for broadhead clearance.  You should be able to get arrows in tune by adjusting spine and point weight.
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: Emerald Archer on April 06, 2017, 10:30:00 PM
That actually helps a lot to know McDave. I was wondering if I could cut them cut and just tune based upon spine and point weight.

Your help is tremendous!
Title: Re: Paper tuning advice?
Post by: FrankM on April 07, 2017, 12:46:00 AM
Your pic above shows a bunch of holes, you said you have different spines. Does one spine produce a better hole than the other spines? I would start with those and different point weights.

I also shoot a 40# Sage and shoot the arrows below. I'm self-taught and after all these years, I can tune, and they match Stu's Calc. My nock point is set at 5/8". This gives me about a 3/4 inch vertical on paper, but going up or down increases the cut, so it stays. My bareshafts also hit where these hit. My philosophy of paper tuning is I use for basic settings to "get close", then go to bareshaft, then to broadhead tuning.

Gold Tip Trads 15/35 29.5" .600
5/16" 100 gr. field point or Magnus Stingers
12.1  gr.  Accu-Lite Insert
11.5  gr.  GT nock
3x5" left wing feathers
Dynamic Spine:  56.8
Total weight = 371
GPP:  9.0
FOC:  12.7%