I am sure there are already 20 threads on this subject but I will ask anyway.
1) I don't cant the bow very much
2) I shoot three under
What are the main causes for a right handed shooter to have the arrow pull left off the shelf when drawing the arrow back?
You could try contacting the string a little deeper in your hook whether it be shallow or deep and kinda roll the string to your normal hook. Of course your nocks have to be snug. This will cause the arrow to put a little pressure against the riser thus keeping it on the shelf. Works for me. Paul<><
IMHO- pulling with your arm instead of your back muscles and or a non relaxed string hand.
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Glenn
Usually it is caused from not locking your fingers when you start your draw. As you begin to draw, your fingers start to tighten on the string as they attempt to keep the string from slipping off the tips.
Try this, nock an arrow, place your fingers on the string with your hand relaxed. Then begin to close your hand like you are going to make a fist. Bet the arrow just jumps off the shelf doesn't it?
From your previous posts, I know you shoot very heavy bows. Tightening the grip on the string is a common malady with heavy bows. Gotta make a strong hook with your fingers before you begin your draw. Try it and let me know how you do.
Danny
You know Ric O'Shay, I never gave it much thought but you may be on to something because me for instance I shoot with the same deep hook no matter what bow I'm shooting, but when I shoot some one elses bow that is way heavier than I'm used to shoot I do feel myself having a tighter string hand.
Could also be my daughters malady & my solution is sortof a bandaid effect.
Thanx for the info.
This is very typical of a new shooter just starting out. Hopefully this answer will get you started off correctly.
If you DON'T point your fingers back toward you....when the draw gets heavier, you are curling the fingers back toward you to help you with the weight.....and YOU are rolling the arrow off the shelf.
If you WILL point the fingers back at you to begin with, the weight will make the fingers UNCURL ...keeping the arrow ON the shelf.
I covered all this and reverse cant on The Bowhunters of TradGang DVD's shooting section.
Yep. Deep hook and a relaxed hand. Don't try to pull with your fingers, because it will make them curl and pull the arrow off the shelf. Do it right, and you don't need more than a tiny shelf to keep the arrow off your hand.
Thanks guys. I do notice the arrow pulling away when I only use the tips of my fingers. I guess I was thinking that a deep hook affects my release more than using my finger tips.
Gosh, using a deeper hook? Now, I can pull something really heavy! LOL
Yep as you are drawing you are curling your fingers, which turns the string to the left causing the arrow to go that way. Fingers should not move during draw cycle.
QuoteOriginally posted by Raging Water:
I guess I was thinking that a deep hook affects my release more than using my finger tips.
Another thing new shooters think...and shooting off the 'pads'(tips) cause tension and has the reverse effect you would assume it would.
And yes,,....you are correct...with a deep hook vs finger tips, the bow feels 10 pounds lighter.
Guys,
Thanks for all the great info!
Question? by a deep hook do you mean having the string in the second crook of your finger?
Brently, a deep hook can be obtained w/the string in the 1st or 2nd crook, or b/t them. Just make sure, like Terry said, your finger-tips are pointing back at you (fingernails parallel to face or side plate of riser) and don't bend your 3rd knuckle into a fist - keep them straight.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
If you DONT point your fingers back toward you....when the draw gets heavier, you are curling the fingers back toward you to help you with the wieght.....and YOU are rolling the arrow off the shelf.
If you WILL point the fingers back at you to begin with, the weight will make the fingers UNCURL ...keeping the arrow ON the shelf.
I covered all this and reverse cant on The Bowhunters of TradGang DVD's shooting section.
Thanks for finally explaining "deep hook" in a way I was able to understand. I've tried and failed to utilize/understand a deep hook on a few occasions and just given up because I couldn't do it right. Tried it today by "setting and relaxing" and it worked like a charm.
Yep. Reread what Ric O Shay and Terry have to say. Folks who've been at this game for a while know what they're talking about. Pulling the arrow away from the riser is just about the most frequent problem there is for beginning finger shooters.
Thanks for the great info. One of the kids (12) that I mentor likes to shoot bows but he was having the same problem, the arrow swinging off the shelf to the left. And after watching his drawing hand I was able to see that he was pinching the nock between his fingers and rolling the string to the left as he tightened his grip. By spreading his one over two under fingers a little farther apart and having him get the string a little deeper (first joint groove instead of pads) the problem straightened out. Now I know I did the right thing after reading the expert advice from TG and Ric Oshay. Plus I'll know what to do as I step up in bow weight. I shoot selfbows, osage and hickory, currently at 50#.
With a good deep hook I am able to shoot 60 pounds two fingers under right and left handed...the deep hook is the key
Great newbie pointer, thanks a lot.
Yes getting a good hook is key as you start to pull, but you have to have a little relaxing of fingers to pull the arrow a little into the riser. I trained myself to actually roll my fingers in from the knuckles a little more shooting 3 under as I got on the string. As I started the very early part of my draw I then relax the hand a bit for a little more rotation on the string. You have to be careful not to cup your hand when you draw past the first inch or so.
I never had an issue that I can recall shooting split due to more finger contact holding the arrow. The change from split to 3 under started the issue for me. I also use to be able to shoot reveres cant easily split, but that is much more difficult 3 under. Most carbons snap on the sting and once on, will rotate on the string easily. For me it takes a good bit of pressure from the index finger pushing the arrow nock into the top string nock to keep it from rotating. Even then it can be hard to keep it on the shelf reverse canting.
I had the same problem when I first started shooting traditionals. Over the time I got tuned up by a few good shooters.
I had this problem a few weeks ago. After shooting for over fifty years I was pulling my hair out trying to find the reason. Turned out that the velcro I was using for shelf material had worn such that it was sloped away from the riser. All I had to do was touch the arrow and it fell off. Drove me nuts until I started thinking out of the box. I replaced it and no more problem.
Look at your draw hand palm at your face. Put your finger in the middle of your palm. Tension in this spot is the cause of the arrow pulling away from the shelf. It is that simple. Practice your draw imagining your hand as a dead hook. Fingers must remain loose. Practice up close to the target till you can draw with your whole hand completely relaxed. REMEMBER, IT IS THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!
I was having this problem but only when drawing on an animal, never when just shooting targets.
I figured out what it was recently.
When shooting targets I would place my 3 finger under tab quite precisely on the string, butted up against my bottom nock.
But when in the heat of it drawing down on an animal it seems my hand placement was not so precise, causing my top finger to put pressure on the arrow nock causing it to pull away from the shelf.
I made my bottom a little longer which gives more clearance between finger and nock.
Seems to have done the trick.
Mark.
I grab the string in a tight fist as I'm bringing the bow up and relax as I'm drawing back. The string rolling toward my fingertips holds the arrow on the shelf. Thanks Terry!
OK, Recent member here so please bear with me. The deep hook you're talking about, do you release from a deep hook. I've been shooting bows, on & off ( mostly off) for going on 50 years. the deep hook, anything past the first joint was WRONG!!!back when I was first learning. Granted I haven't kept up with trends but I was taught to use the finger pads, about where you'd place your finger on a rifle trigger. A deep hook would make it easier to pull a heavy bow, but a release from where I'm understanding this to be would cause accuracy problems. I shoot 50 - 55#, always have.
Triphammer,
You get the best chance at a good release with the string in or very near the first joints of your fingers. A "deep hook" is NOT how far down the fingers the string is towards your palm but rather how far around the string your finger tips are curled with the string in or near the first joint crease.
A VERY common error is to THINK that the string on the finger tips gives a better release but it DOES NOT! That causes far too much tension in the hand and arm AND a "pile" of finger skin in front of the string that the string must move around.
There is a lot of discussion about this here on the "Form forum."
Arne
PS. Check out this thread : http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=007254
If you put your draw hand palm up and make a cup with your hand you will see the spot where all the problem is. The lowest spot. Tension in this spot causes the fingers to curve and the arrow follows the fingers.
R-E-L-A-X the palm and take a deep hook. Let the string rip from your hand when you are on target.
I was having similar issues until I read this thread. After my first time shooting I kind of got the hint when my fingers were killing me. The reason for that was I was trying to pull my arrow with the second "pad" of my fingers, with the string resting in my second "indent". It became glaringly apparent once i took my glove off and kind of had a "well damn" moment when I looked at my glove and realized only that first "pad" is gauntelented.
Anyhow, point being working on my hook and form with pulling not only greatly improved my comfort (no pain) but also my consistency and the arrow pulling away. In my second time shooting I was able to pull of a nice, tight group of 6 arrows with mostly just this adjustment.
I must apologize for not getting back sooner.
First, another thanks to MoeBow. I had always needed to use a hard to very hard glove while shooting with the string on my finger tip pads. I tried what Arne said in this thread about the deep hook & no more painful fingertips, I can use a much softer glove & really feel when my release is right. I can even use a tab now, never could b4. Tabs aren't my favorite but it bothered me that I Couldn't use one, even thought I didn't.
After taking some time off from shooting....I returned with spotty accuracy. Decided to switch to 3 under shooting and my accuracy dialed right in! I was grouping nice and tight out to 30yds. Then I realized the change that made the difference was not the 3 under but the deep hook I used while shooting 3 under...back to split finger w/ a deep hook and grouping well again!
With a split finger drawing style (one finger up and two under),I found the quickest way to eliminate this problem is to bring the bottom two fingers up against the arrow nock firmly and put very little pressure on the top of the nock with the top finger.
When I teach a first time shooter about finger placement its the first thing I show them.
Cures the problem for youngsters right off.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
This is very typical of a new shooter just starting out. Hopefully this answer will get you started off correctly.
If you DON'T point your fingers back toward you....when the draw gets heavier, you are curling the fingers back toward you to help you with the weight.....and YOU are rolling the arrow off the shelf.
If you WILL point the fingers back at you to begin with, the weight will make the fingers UNCURL ...keeping the arrow ON the shelf.
I covered all this and reverse cant on The Bowhunters of TradGang DVD's shooting section.
thank you for explaining something I've been confused about, I'll give that a shot and we'll see what happens
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolftrail:
I cured that problem by canting the bow. Or is this wrong..?
Actually, by doing it the correct way, you can reverse cant and keep the arrow on the shelf.
i will sometimes pull the arrow off the shelf as i draw. Usually when this happens i find that i am cupping my draw hand, instead of keeping the back of my hand straight/flat.
I have also found that when I hold 3 fingers under the nock instead of 1 finger above that the arrow stopped jumping to the left. This also helped my aim.
I just got back into archery about 8 months ago. I was practicing with a 30# bow. I switched to a 55# bow and the arrow jumped off on every draw. drove me crazy. canting didnt help. also I strained the tendons in my fingers/hand (scared me!)I read this thread and Terrys description of "point your fingers back to you and they will un-curl as you draw" totally clicked. Problem solved instantly. no more arrow jump,no more finger pain. thanks Terry. Now and then when it happens I just know what I'm doing wrong and instantly correct.
Never had this issue but so interesting to read!!!
As a newbie to archery I have been having trouble with the arrow coming off the rest. Just found this old thread and look forward to trying a deep hook with relaxed wrist and hand to rotate the arrow into the shelf. Thanks everybody!
If you grab the string up on the middle of the second phalange of the middle finger and let it roll in the crease between 1st and 2nd phalanges while drawing (deep hook) the string rolling movement through arrow nock will push the arrow secure against the bow shelf.
PS This rolling happens in first inches of draw or it can be done right before drawing, when you position the string on your "deep hook". I prefer to do it before drawing, but to each his own.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolftrail:
I cured that problem by canting the bow. Or is this wrong..?
Actually, by doing it the correct way, you can reverse cant and keep the arrow on the shelf. [/b]
OK but I think I'll keep canting to the right. Of course a proper hook does the trick.
I used this today. Made the process much more streamlined as I was using my bow hand index finger to correct the arrow when it occasionally moved. More repeatable bow hand as a result.
:campfire:
Another tip I picked up from a John Schulz video is to actually roll the string in towards the riser a bit when beginning your draw... that and all the good deep hook advive will keep the arrow where you want it.
OOps double post.
When I read the title of your post, my first thought was that you are a 3-under shooter. The vertical bow doesn't help either, but it is not the problem by itself.
However, it is also my style of shooting. I find that it goes well with split vision (I do shoot instinctive on shots requiring cants and other precarious drawing positions).
My arrow also comes off the riser when I draw. Especially with aerial shooting and taking snapshots. It is because as 3-under shooters, we have less control over the back of the arrow, since a split-finger-hold shooter literally has his fingers wrapped around the back of the arrow, he has more control and is able to use a slight rotational pressure with his fingers to hold the arrow against the riser.
The solution? I just lift my index knuckle as I draw to give support to the arrow and tuck it back down when I reach anchor. It is something I never even think about. They say this is for kids, but it's not. If your form is good and you need to lift a knuckle to draw, big deal. It will enable you to shoot fast, and this is a complete advantage in hunting situations, especially from the ground.
The trick from the John shulz video about rolling the string might help you. However, it only worked for me when I was a split-finger-hold shooter. It seems like the lack of finger control on the arrow is exactly the problem.
What Terry Green mentioned about reversing cant is completely correct. However, I can only take this shot with a split draw. When shooting 3-under, I cannot impart enough pressure by rolling the string to hold the arrow against the riser during a reverse cant. I have had to tolerate the loss of this shooting position since my switch, although I'd love to get it back.
What a wealth of information this forum is!
Thanks to all I have been reading here everytime i have an issue usually get it solved just reading the threads on this forum.
Thanks again
Islander :clapper: